BENALISH HERO unlimited value ?

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tromagic
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BENALISH HERO unlimited value ?

Post by tromagic » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:08 pm

I wonder if this is possible : A BENALISH HERO unlimited sold for 550 USD ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MTG-MAGIC-BENAL ... 385wt_1213

The same guy bought ICY MANIPULATOR UNLIMITED for 999 USD ????

I agree that condition count a lot but benalish unlimited BGS 10 sould not sell for more than 100 USD ... And even at this price, you must be crazy about unlimited benalish ?
What is your though ?
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ouallada
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Post by ouallada » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:34 pm

Well, it wasn't a BIN, there was an OBO option. It probably went for quite a bit lower than $550, depending on how desperate the buyer was for a graded set.

tromagic
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Post by tromagic » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:40 pm

I see, i though 550 was the price it sold for.
So we don t know the price the guy realy paid.
Thanks,
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Magic61983
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Post by Magic61983 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:41 am

It sold for $290ish and the person is trying to put together the best BGS Unlimited set in the world. BGS 10's are insanely hard to get they are over 100 times harder to get then PSA 10's.
BGS 9+ Alpha set 282/295 (97.29%) Avg 9.41
BGS 9.5+ Beta set 283/302 (93.71%) Avg 9.58
BGS 9.5+ Arabian set 35/92 (38.04%) Avg 9.62
BGS 9.5+ Antiquities set 82/100 (82%) Avg 9.64
BGS 9.5+ Legends set 279/310 (90.00%) Avg 9.61

paris
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Post by paris » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:46 am

Do there exist any alpha/beta/unlimited cards with BGS 10 and all 10 for subgrades? The only BGS 10 with all 10 subgrades I've seen online is a junk uncommon card (Hinder) that ABU is selling for $350.

tromagic
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Post by tromagic » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:48 am

Magic61983 wrote:It sold for $290ish and the person is trying to put together the best BGS Unlimited set in the world. BGS 10's are insanely hard to get they are over 100 times harder to get then PSA 10's.
Any one tested BGS /PSA to see the proportion of PSA 10 / PSA 9 and BGS 9 -9.5-10 ?
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Magic61983
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Post by Magic61983 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:31 pm

paris wrote:Do there exist any alpha/beta/unlimited cards with BGS 10 and all 10 for subgrades? The only BGS 10 with all 10 subgrades I've seen online is a junk uncommon card (Hinder) that ABU is selling for $350.
This is the only one I know of with all 10 subgrades. I have yet to hear of any A/B/U/AN/AQ/Legends cards with all 10 subs.

tromagic wrote:
Magic61983 wrote:It sold for $290ish and the person is trying to put together the best BGS Unlimited set in the world. BGS 10's are insanely hard to get they are over 100 times harder to get then PSA 10's.
Any one tested BGS /PSA to see the proportion of PSA 10 / PSA 9 and BGS 9 -9.5-10 ?
Most PSA 9's won't cross-grade to BGS 9. I have PSA 10's that won't cross to BGS 9.5's. PSA 10's are nice and all but PSA doesn't take into consideration centering when grading. This is why BGS is the new standard for MTG grading.
BGS 9+ Alpha set 282/295 (97.29%) Avg 9.41
BGS 9.5+ Beta set 283/302 (93.71%) Avg 9.58
BGS 9.5+ Arabian set 35/92 (38.04%) Avg 9.62
BGS 9.5+ Antiquities set 82/100 (82%) Avg 9.64
BGS 9.5+ Legends set 279/310 (90.00%) Avg 9.61

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Post by Jmaschme » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:40 pm

I have 5 BGS 10s from a combination of Alpha, Arabian Nights, Unlimited. None have four 10s. BGS 10s are exceedingly rare, particularly in the older sets where the print runs were relatively small and everybody was playing with the cards unsleeved. Also manufacturing defects/cutting/centering issues were prevalent in those days.

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Post by Jmaschme » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:47 pm

I have BGS 9.5s and PSA 10s that have no discernable flaws at all. I also have BGS 9.5s and PSA 10s that, in my opinion, don't deserve the grade on the case and would not cross over well. As Brian said centering is a much bigger component of the grade for BGS. I prefer BGS vs. PSA as I like the sub-grade system which takes centering into account. I also like the heavy duty cases that truly encapsulate and protect the cards.

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thulnanth
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Post by thulnanth » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:38 pm

Jmaschme wrote:I have BGS 9.5s and PSA 10s that have no discernable flaws at all. I also have BGS 9.5s and PSA 10s that, in my opinion, don't deserve the grade on the case and would not cross over well. As Brian said centering is a much bigger component of the grade for BGS. I prefer BGS vs. PSA as I like the sub-grade system which takes centering into account. I also like the heavy duty cases that truly encapsulate and protect the cards.
Gotta agree with this....

Both companies do a good job overall, but they also have their "mistakes". To be honest, now that I'm seeing more BGS graded cards I'm much less impressed with their overall quality. Both companies simply suck at grading centering, in my opinion. To be a 10/9.5 I feel the card should have perfect centering - the standards both companies use is much lower than I would. Beyond that they are fairly comperable.

As for BGS 10's? I kinda see them like Spinal Tap...

"Ours goes all the way to 11..." :-P

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Jared
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Post by tap4black » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:51 am

Magic61983 wrote:Most PSA 9's won't cross-grade to BGS 9. I have PSA 10's that won't cross to BGS 9.5's. PSA 10's are nice and all but PSA doesn't take into consideration centering when grading. This is why BGS is the new standard for MTG grading.
Brian, I have several BGS graded cards that did not make an equal crossover grade into PSA holders in grades from 8.5 to 9.5. As others have said, if you look at enough cards (I have personally submitted over 3000 Alpha cards for grading which is more than BGS has graded as a company!) you know what to look for and can pass on cards you will not make the grade if you are only wanting to use one service or the other. The old adage of "buy the card, not the grade on the label" is so very true as some cards are most certainly overgraded from both companies!

Both companies have parameters they grade stricter on, BGS on centering and PSA on corners. If you have pack fresh cards with great centering and marginal corners you will get better overall grades from Beckett. If the cards have 60/40 centering but the corners are sharp, you will get better grades from PSA.

That said, if you are into reselling cards, a PSA 10 will always sell for more than a BGS 9 even though lots of folks think they are similar in condition. I'll gladly take anyones PSA 10's they want to sell for BGS 9 prices :)

Len
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Magic61983
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Post by Magic61983 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:37 pm

tap4black wrote:
Magic61983 wrote:Most PSA 9's won't cross-grade to BGS 9. I have PSA 10's that won't cross to BGS 9.5's. PSA 10's are nice and all but PSA doesn't take into consideration centering when grading. This is why BGS is the new standard for MTG grading.
Brian, I have several BGS graded cards that did not make an equal crossover grade into PSA holders in grades from 8.5 to 9.5. As others have said, if you look at enough cards (I have personally submitted over 3000 Alpha cards for grading which is more than BGS has graded as a company!) you know what to look for and can pass on cards you will not make the grade if you are only wanting to use one service or the other. The old adage of "buy the card, not the grade on the label" is so very true as some cards are most certainly overgraded from both companies!

Both companies have parameters they grade stricter on, BGS on centering and PSA on corners. If you have pack fresh cards with great centering and marginal corners you will get better overall grades from Beckett. If the cards have 60/40 centering but the corners are sharp, you will get better grades from PSA.

That said, if you are into reselling cards, a PSA 10 will always sell for more than a BGS 9 even though lots of folks think they are similar in condition. I'll gladly take anyones PSA 10's they want to sell for BGS 9 prices :)

Len
Hey Len,

I've also dealt with both companies not as much as you obviously but I have dealt with them over the years. The main problem I have with PSA is that the cases are horrible and the card move around in them and can get damaged. I do have respect for PSA 10's but I've seen PSA personally destroy one of the cards I submitted and the way they handled it was far from reasonable. With that being said if you can find someone someone selling a PSA 10 for a BGS 9 price that person to put it nicely is stupid. PSA 10's are slightly higher then BGS 9.5's value wise but far more PSA 10's exist in the market at this point in time. You also need to take into consideration that not all BGS 9.5's will crossgrade to PSA 10 or vise versa based on the subgrades given by BGS. In order to get a PSA 10 from what I've seen on cards I've had crossgraded you need a card with at least 4x 9.5 or 3x 9.5 and a 10 on Surface. I also know PSA gives certian people preferential treatment with grading which I believe BGS does as well. The whole problem is all these cards are graded by people and depending on the mood they're in that day the grades can change. It's all based on personal preference of the card any given day.

I personally don't like PSA because of the security of the cards in the case and the cases are very flimsy compared to BGS cards. It's all personal preference though when it comes to PSA or BGS.
BGS 9+ Alpha set 282/295 (97.29%) Avg 9.41
BGS 9.5+ Beta set 283/302 (93.71%) Avg 9.58
BGS 9.5+ Arabian set 35/92 (38.04%) Avg 9.62
BGS 9.5+ Antiquities set 82/100 (82%) Avg 9.64
BGS 9.5+ Legends set 279/310 (90.00%) Avg 9.61

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thulnanth
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Post by thulnanth » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:59 am

Magic61983 wrote:The main problem I have with PSA is that the cases are horrible and the card move around in them and can get damaged.

I personally don't like PSA because of the security of the cards in the case and the cases are very flimsy compared to BGS cards. It's all personal preference though when it comes to PSA or BGS.
Hey Magic61983,

There's a video I saw quite a while back where someone put a PSA card in a paintshaker for some length of time (don't remember how long, but it was a while) to see if it was hurt and it wasn't damaged in the least. I've personally shook the *&%$ out of cards I was planning to crack out anyway and they aren't harmed at all. The minimal distance anything can move in those cases really makes it hard to damage them. OTOH, I have had cards damaged in the slabbing process, but that's a different issue...

I do like the look of the BGS cases, but the PSA cases do have their appeal too. Since they are thinner and stack nice they are far superior if you're slabbing large numbers of low value cards (like for a set). I could see doing something like getting the high $$$ cards slabbed by BGS for a nice display and getting the rest graded by PSA just to store easily. Not saying this is everyone's preference, but choices are nice. :wink:

Just a couple of thoughts...

Take it easy,
Jared
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Post by ende73 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:53 pm

I have never purchased or held graded cards so I have zero knowledge on the subject.

However, I recently came into possession of about 300 UNL cards (of all rarities) that I would define at least NM-/NM and this post about the Benalish Hero is somewhat tempting...

Here is a link to a rather large scan of one of the worse-condition cards for reference:

http://s915.photobucket.com/user/ende73 ... 6.jpg.html
http://s915.photobucket.com/user/ende73 ... 5.jpg.html

In very pratical terms, what should I do to get some cards graded? Are there any European members who are familiar with this? How are shipping costs and risks handled?

Thanks for your wise inputs :wink:

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Post by Jmaschme » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:49 pm

it's probably worth it to get some graded, but I would be careful. Look at ABU's website and you can see that on many cards you're not going to cover your cost unless it comes back as a BGS 9.5 GEM Mint or PSA 10.

Generally, Unlimited isn't worth much as a collectible unless it's also a playable card like P9 or dual lands. Cards that were discontinued after unlimited are ok too like Gauntlet of Might, Word of Command, Lich, Forcefield, etc.

I would look at ABU to get a sense of inventory and pricing. Note that many unlimited cards have centering issues like the other early sets, and on many of the same cards (Bog Wraith is a nasty one to find in high grade in A/B/U). And because not many collect unlimited, you won't get a premium if a card is perfect in everey other way except for centering. So again I would be careful, just my two cents.

But I should actually stop typing because I do happen to collect unlimited and I need more Gem Mint cards to buy! Ignore what I said, get it all graded :-D

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