Beta Serra proof

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magicmisprints
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Beta Serra proof

Post by magicmisprints » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:39 pm

... what do you guys think it's worth?

A real one. One of the 15 copies that wasn't misappropriated/back-of-the-trucked/"lost"/whatever (sorry, Gary, I know this sort of talk pisses you off, but I have a lot of received anger from Shuler on this point) at the WotC dock and is signed by Shuler - btw, last I checked, he won't sign one of these that he didn't receive as part of that 15, for those who may have one cut from a sheet.
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Post by Magic61983 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:00 pm

Personally as an angel collector and one of the few people that would want one of these I wouldn't pay more then $100 for a Serra Angel AP. I don't associate a large value to rare AP's because they are unplayable. Just my opinion.
BGS 9+ Alpha set 282/295 (97.29%) Avg 9.41
BGS 9.5+ Beta set 283/302 (93.71%) Avg 9.58
BGS 9.5+ Arabian set 35/92 (38.04%) Avg 9.62
BGS 9.5+ Antiquities set 82/100 (82%) Avg 9.64
BGS 9.5+ Legends set 279/310 (90.00%) Avg 9.61

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Re: Beta Serra proof

Post by mystical_tutor » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:04 pm

magicmisprints wrote:... what do you guys think it's worth?

A real one. One of the 15 copies that wasn't misappropriated/back-of-the-trucked/"lost"/whatever (sorry, Gary, I know this sort of talk pisses you off, but I have a lot of received anger from Shuler on this point) at the WotC dock and is signed by Shuler - btw, last I checked, he won't sign one of these that he didn't receive as part of that 15, for those who may have one cut from a sheet.
Humm, hope I didn't come across wrong someplace. I'm on Doug's side on this one. He should have gotten them all and he didn't and that greatly dissapoints me because someone screwed him and he didn't deserve it.

Value? That is a hard one as I would value it above other AP of rares in that set just because of the desireability of the card.

What does a Shivan AP go for? It should be at least that much.
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Re: Beta Serra proof

Post by magicmisprints » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:52 pm

I've seen Shivan sell for 300ish. A Time Walk seems to have exchanged hands on eBay a while ago for 2000 or so.
mystical_tutor wrote:
magicmisprints wrote:... what do you guys think it's worth?

A real one. One of the 15 copies that wasn't misappropriated/back-of-the-trucked/"lost"/whatever (sorry, Gary, I know this sort of talk pisses you off, but I have a lot of received anger from Shuler on this point) at the WotC dock and is signed by Shuler - btw, last I checked, he won't sign one of these that he didn't receive as part of that 15, for those who may have one cut from a sheet.
Humm, hope I didn't come across wrong someplace. I'm on Doug's side on this one. He should have gotten them all and he didn't and that greatly dissapoints me because someone screwed him and he didn't deserve it.

Value? That is a hard one as I would value it above other AP of rares in that set just because of the desireability of the card.

What does a Shivan AP go for? It should be at least that much.
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Post by magicmisprints » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:00 pm

I don't know how much it's worth precisely, or I wouldn't be asking, but I am quite sure that if I put mine up for sale and you were only willing to pay $100 for it, you wouldn't be in the top 10 bidders. There are many collectors of what I call "fetish" cards like Serra, and they tend to turn up when rare versions (Summer, Albino, etc) do. This one is also a card whose legitimate specimens barely exist. I've owned two specimens of more than one Summer uncommon that I can think of offhand (Channel [$hundreds] and Hurricane[$thousands]), and you have two Serras [$thousands] right now, but I will never own a second one of those 15 Serra proofs, I expect.
Magic61983 wrote:Personally as an angel collector and one of the few people that would want one of these I wouldn't pay more then $100 for a Serra Angel AP. I don't associate a large value to rare AP's because they are unplayable. Just my opinion.
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Post by Magic61983 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:27 pm

magicmisprints wrote:I don't know how much it's worth precisely, or I wouldn't be asking, but I am quite sure that if I put mine up for sale and you were only willing to pay $100 for it, you wouldn't be in the top 10 bidders. There are many collectors of what I call "fetish" cards like Serra, and they tend to turn up when rare versions (Summer, Albino, etc) do. This one is also a card whose legitimate specimens barely exist. I've owned two specimens of more than one Summer uncommon that I can think of offhand (Channel [$hundreds] and Hurricane[$thousands]), and you have two Serras [$thousands] right now, but I will never own a second one of those 15 Serra proofs, I expect.
Magic61983 wrote:Personally as an angel collector and one of the few people that would want one of these I wouldn't pay more then $100 for a Serra Angel AP. I don't associate a large value to rare AP's because they are unplayable. Just my opinion.
I'm not saying your wrong with your evaluation or comment I personally wouldn't value a proof more or less based on it's rarity. The only reason is because as you stated before there are a large number of AP Beta sheets out there and they can easily be cut. The fact that your Serra AP is signed is nice and I'm sure it adds to the value. The value I put on the card isn't met to discourage you in any way it's just the value I would put on it because it had a white back and I personally don't care if I get one. I'm sure you'll find someone willing to pay a few hundred maybe even a thousand but AP collectors are few and far between these days. The fact that only 15 were given to Schuler is honestly depressing but then again it adds to the rarity of the card. I kind of wish they did something more special for AP's so you could tell it was an AP from the front and not have to flip it over to distinguish it from a normal card. I wish you luck with the card I'm sure someone will go nuts for it just not me.
BGS 9+ Alpha set 282/295 (97.29%) Avg 9.41
BGS 9.5+ Beta set 283/302 (93.71%) Avg 9.58
BGS 9.5+ Arabian set 35/92 (38.04%) Avg 9.62
BGS 9.5+ Antiquities set 82/100 (82%) Avg 9.64
BGS 9.5+ Legends set 279/310 (90.00%) Avg 9.61

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Post by berkumps » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:34 pm

When I ordered my T-Chinese and Japanese 4th Edition artist proofs from Doug through a member here a few years ago, I was told I could purchase a Serra Angel proof for $1000. I declined. I did not know the full story behind him only receiving 15, but I personally did not want to pay $1000 for one proof, as I needed that money for other cardboard crack obsessions.

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Post by magicmisprints » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:31 am

You know, I never thought to check if he had any left! I'll see if he's sold it/them yet and I might have my answer right there.
Next (related) question: Does anyone really know how many sheet sets were printed? Or has that question already been asked and answered a head-bashingly large number of times?
berkumps wrote:When I ordered my T-Chinese and Japanese 4th Edition artist proofs from Doug through a member here a few years ago, I was told I could purchase a Serra Angel proof for $1000. I declined. I did not know the full story behind him only receiving 15, but I personally did not want to pay $1000 for one proof, as I needed that money for other cardboard crack obsessions.
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Post by pp » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:48 am

btw. pickle.69 has 2 complete artist proof set r/u/c, one of them is uncut

the price of that could be used as a upper limit for the whole set of singles

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Post by kalimno » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:10 am

It depends on the day and where you sell it. But APs are gaining popularity.

Even if Doug had received all 50, the proof would fetch handsome prices today.

It is rarer and more iconic than the DCI Exalted Angel Foil AP, and last time I checked Rob Alexander didn't have any difficulty selling them around 150 - 200 $. I believe 500 $ or so was where the demand slowed down.

So, I don't think it would be impossible to see one selling under 400 $ today. And it could easily double that. And Doug would be doing the right thing asking 1000 $ - if that info is correct.

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Post by Erl00 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:00 am

Hello everyone,

I have purchased an AP set from Douglas Shuler back in ... ~2004 I think.

The Serra Angel was priced separately from the 28 other cards of the set. It was in the $500 range.

I hope this helps.
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Eric.

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Post by magicmisprints » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:13 pm

Yes, I've heard. This is part of the reason I'd like to know how many of those sets there are. That number will obviously influence both the price of an uncut sheet set and the number of single (mostly unsigned - it's got to be awkward to ask an artist to sign an AP he didn't sell you, even when it's not a Serra) cards that might one day hit the market. Unlike pickle, who mentions it prominently when he talks about them, most people (such as some of those to whom he will sell his, human nature suggests) who sell/resell these will probably not mention/even know that they're from consumer-cut sheets.
pp wrote:btw. pickle.69 has 2 complete artist proof set r/u/c, one of them is uncut

the price of that could be used as a upper limit for the whole set of singles
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Post by Magic61983 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:31 pm

magicmisprints wrote:Yes, I've heard. This is part of the reason I'd like to know how many of those sets there are. That number will obviously influence both the price of an uncut sheet set and the number of single (mostly unsigned - it's got to be awkward to ask an artist to sign an AP he didn't sell you, even when it's not a Serra) cards that might one day hit the market. Unlike pickle, who mentions it prominently when he talks about them, most people (such as some of those to whom he will sell his, human nature suggests) who sell/resell these will probably not mention/even know that they're from consumer-cut sheets.
pp wrote:btw. pickle.69 has 2 complete artist proof set r/u/c, one of them is uncut

the price of that could be used as a upper limit for the whole set of singles
I would venture to guess there are 50 AP sets going around. I have one sitting in my basement atm. I know pickle has technically 2 and most of the hardcore collectors that collect have one of these or know someone that has them. The AP sheets really aren't rare which is part of the reason for my pricing on the card.
BGS 9+ Alpha set 282/295 (97.29%) Avg 9.41
BGS 9.5+ Beta set 283/302 (93.71%) Avg 9.58
BGS 9.5+ Arabian set 35/92 (38.04%) Avg 9.62
BGS 9.5+ Antiquities set 82/100 (82%) Avg 9.64
BGS 9.5+ Legends set 279/310 (90.00%) Avg 9.61

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Post by kalimno » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:36 pm

Ofcourse, with high value APs, I would never buy an unsigned copy. The obvious reason being the dubious origin. We all heard of artist AP binders stolen, right ?

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Post by Magic61983 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:40 pm

I think most of us have heard about almost everything being stolen all the way down to "Proposal". It's not completely out of the norm for someone to buy an AP and not want it signed. It's really rare but I'm guessing it could happen.

I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way but I'm sure if you throw enough money at an artists way they'll sign an AP they didn't sell.
BGS 9+ Alpha set 282/295 (97.29%) Avg 9.41
BGS 9.5+ Beta set 283/302 (93.71%) Avg 9.58
BGS 9.5+ Arabian set 35/92 (38.04%) Avg 9.62
BGS 9.5+ Antiquities set 82/100 (82%) Avg 9.64
BGS 9.5+ Legends set 279/310 (90.00%) Avg 9.61

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