Uncut Beta/CE Proof Sheet Set

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magicmisprints
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Uncut Beta/CE Proof Sheet Set

Post by magicmisprints » Thu May 27, 2010 9:46 pm

Hello, all. I have an uncut Beta proof sheet set I am considering selling. I'll post images of it tonight or tomorrow. The uncommon sheet has a nick in it on the left lower edge, but it doesn't hit a card. A discussion with tap4black a couple months ago indicated to me that a perfect condition specimen might be worth half or maybe slightly more than half of the currently loony price ($20K) asked by that higrademagic guy on ebay. Does this seem about right to you guys?

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Re: Uncut Beta/CE Proof Sheet Set

Post by dragsamou » Thu May 27, 2010 10:17 pm

magicmisprints wrote:Hello, all. I have an uncut Beta proof sheet set I am considering selling. I'll post images of it tonight or tomorrow. The uncommon sheet has a nick in it on the left lower edge, but it doesn't hit a card. A discussion with tap4black a couple months ago indicated to me that a perfect condition specimen might be worth half or maybe slightly more than half of the currently loony price ($20K) asked by that higrademagic guy on ebay. Does this seem about right to you guys?
Hi
What seems right to me, is that it should be donated to Magiclibrarities.
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Post by Magic61983 » Thu May 27, 2010 10:44 pm

I've talked to a sheet collector about the sheet on eBay and we came to a value of $5000-$7000.
BGS 9+ Alpha set 282/295 (97.29%) Avg 9.41
BGS 9.5+ Beta set 283/302 (93.71%) Avg 9.58
BGS 9.5+ Arabian set 35/92 (38.04%) Avg 9.62
BGS 9.5+ Antiquities set 82/100 (82%) Avg 9.64
BGS 9.5+ Legends set 279/310 (90.00%) Avg 9.61

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Post by Tha_Gunslinga » Thu May 27, 2010 10:49 pm

If we're talking white backs, I wouldn't think you could get more than $2-3k for it. The market for sheets is very small.

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Post by hammr7 » Fri May 28, 2010 3:21 am

Tha_Gunslinga wrote:If we're talking white backs, I wouldn't think you could get more than $2-3k for it. The market for sheets is very small.
If its a white-backed sheet, I would think that even this price might be high, for two reasons.

The first is that there are legitimate two-sided "Limited" sheets out there. These sheets are certainly worthy of the big bucks.

The second is that most of the white-backed sheets I have seen, and have seen offered in the past, were of a thinner card stock, consistent with the Collector's Edition cards. The story was that some of these were given out as regional prizes when the Collector's Edition cards came out. The paper stock would be a dead-giveaway that the uncut sheets weren't Beta, diminishing the prices.

If the sheet you have is normal card thickness, with a white back, then it might be associated with artist proofs (did they have them for Limited?). If they are like this, at least the claim of them being "Limited" might have some level of possibility.

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Post by kalimno » Fri May 28, 2010 3:34 am

The information I have from artists who worked on Alpha - Beta is that they received the proofs during Collector's Edition. Thus some call them Beta, some Collector's Edition Proofs.

If it is an uncut sheet from the era that proofs were first made during CE, then we should not be talking in 5k - 10k region, if it is actually Beta I believe that would make it more desirable, yet could not speculate on the price.

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Post by magicmisprints » Fri May 28, 2010 3:49 am

I bought them in 96-97 from a fellow who used to have an ownership stake in the then-dominant Adventures by Mail distributor in the Northeast US. He had them on sale in a retail store he owned in a mall a bit north of Albany, NY for quite some time before I bought them. I keep them in plastic sheaths that basically resemble giant top loaders, and never remove them from these. I paid 2400 for them back then (almost certainly more than they were worth at the time), and I believe them to be uncut Beta/CE artist proof cards. He was unable when I purchased them to tell me how many sheet sets existed. I still haven't received a totally satisfying answer to that question all these years later, but I've never laid my own eyes on another one in all that time, either, though I have seen pictures of the ones higrademagic is selling on ebay. I think that the tentativeness and variety of these opinions is also evidence of their fairly extreme rarity and the lack of comparable sales. No one is saying, "oh, these go for x." Only "well, I think these should go for x" with the implicit ("if any were for sale besides the one that crazy guy has up for 20,000").

If these are what I think they are, a set of them sold three years ago on ebay for about 7,000 USD, according to the reputable tap4black. With everything else even a little bit like these appreciating over that time frame, I don't really believe that these could somehow now be worth only a small fraction of that amount.

I'll post some pictures of them later tonight or early tomorrow morning to give a better idea of exactly what these might be - I have never heard before of these things being printed on two different kinds of card stock, though I am willing to consult any references anyone may have seen to confirm the existence of this probably rarer still class of item.

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Post by hammr7 » Fri May 28, 2010 12:15 pm

When I was actively accumulating uncut sheets (between ~ 2001 and 2006) I came across a number of these sheets. Some were offered singularly, while others were offered as full sets. Of the dozen or so sets I encountered, only one was double-sided. The story was that it was a twin to a set that hung, framed, in some conference room somewhere in WOTC headquarters. Apparently it was originally owned by an early major investor in WOTC. I did get pictures seemingly showing the sheets were two-sided (although I didn't see the sheets in person).

I was unwilling to pay the requested price for the two-sided set (I want to say ~ $5,000) in 2003. The set appeared a couple of times on Ebay. At the time I could have had white-backed sets for under $1,000, but was picking up seemingly rarer uncut sheets - like uncut Vanguards and my Pokemon-backed Magic sheet, along with other unique Magic items. To give you an idea of how "common" or at least "normal" the CE set seemed; the last time the two-sided set was on Ebay, in 2004 or 2005, there were two other auctions for the white backed sets going on at the same time.

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Post by mystical_tutor » Fri May 28, 2010 12:57 pm

While discussing AP with a former WotC art director and artist I asked if there had been any 1st or 2d edition APs. His comment was that Jesper started the AP thing when the Collectors Editions came out and there was never any A/B/U APs that he knew of.

The set I have came in a plain white box and has all the cards that are in the CE, including the extra lands but the backs are blank and the card stock is the thin type used in the CE.

Gary

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Post by Worth » Fri May 28, 2010 1:30 pm

There is a set of these (with Magic backs) that I got from a collector here and gave to WotC many many years ago. (I want to say 5-6?) Some of the stuff in the deal that the person I bought from was actually WotC-owned, but much of it was not.

The sheets now hang, framed, right outside R&D along the walkway and are a major point of pride for me. :)

They always ALWAYS stop visitor traffic, if they know anything about Magic. ;)

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Post by magicmisprints » Fri May 28, 2010 6:26 pm

hammr7 wrote:I was unwilling to pay the requested price for the two-sided set (I want to say ~ $5,000) in 2003. The set appeared a couple of times on Ebay. At the time I could have had white-backed sets for under $1,000, but was picking up seemingly rarer uncut sheets - like uncut Vanguards and my Pokemon-backed Magic sheet, along with other unique Magic items. To give you an idea of how "common" or at least "normal" the CE set seemed; the last time the two-sided set was on Ebay, in 2004 or 2005, there were two other auctions for the white backed sets going on at the same time.
So what you say (white-backed available for 1000 in 03, two for sale in 04 or 05, prices not specified) does not appear to contradict what I have heard.. namely, that there has been no white-backed sheet set sale comp available since 2007 or so, and that the last one anyone could tell me about was ~$7000. Certainly, there are many other items people on this forum might like that were available more readily in 04 than in 07, and many many things that were available at much better prices in 2003 than in 2007 or 2010 - Alpha/Beta edition sets, for instance (or, say, Summer Underground Seas).

That's a (qualified) relief, but I really wish I had known about that period of availability these things had at the time - would have loved to pick up a few more and cost-average a bit.

If anyone knows of any other more recent sale prices for this item (say, since John Paul died, or even since Hurricane Katrina), I would appreciate hearing about them.

Kinda cool to hear about actual uncut Beta card sheets.

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Post by EddieO » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:01 am

Two sets of white backed sheets were sold at Worlds 1998 in Seattle. One was a private sale, and it sold for like $750 or so.....the other was in the WOTC Auction, which was mostly artwork. It was signed by Richard and sold for a little over $1000....it was also in a very nice set of frames.

And as for the Highgrades cards......I've actually met the guy. He is very passionate about collecting the cards and such. He puts a lot of the stuff up (like the juzam, savanah) for high prices, not because he wants to sell them but because he is using them for advertising his new website.....and he knows by putting them up at a crazy price, he never has to worry about someone buying it and losing his piece of advertising.....

However, if you are interested in the Juzam, PM me.....I know what he is willing to let it go for.......

Later EddieO

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Worlds 98

Post by magicmisprints » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:30 am

No kidding? I was at that event, and while I saw several things that I couldn't afford to get/couldn't get prices for/got scooped on (original Lich painting, two Blue Hurricanes and several other Summer cards among them), I didn't get wind of the proof sheet sets. That was so far back, though, I had just bought the sheets I have now the year before. A Beta Underground Sea could certainly have been had at that event for under $40, but back then you would rather have had a Tundra anyway.

At that event, though, I did manage to pick up about 35 of those Fallen Empires cards with the cardfronts printed on the backs from a guy who had a store in Nevada, as well as a big stack of really funky French BB RV miscuts from (no real reason to protect his name anymore - haven't seen him in forever, and he's no longer bringing me his goodies) Chris Benafel. A lot of stuff was up for grabs that summer. Less than a month later I was at Dragoncon not far from the Troll and Toad table that was selling a box of Summer by the pack at the table as though it were Revised.

Talk about your missed opportunities... $250 for 36 Summer rares and 504 other Summer cards? *sigh*

You say he has a real price for his Juzam? I'm not too surprized, because it's clearly got a much higher markup (>60X) than the sheets (no more than 25X, if he's had them for 7-12 years). What's your guy actually willing to let his proof sheet set sell for?

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Post by EddieO » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:09 am

I have no clue what he wants for the sheet, didn't ask....he knows I deal a lot in the art, so I told him I would ask around on it for him...

Worlds was a weird event....both 97 and 98....1998 I bought 4 blue hurricanes from my buddy larry, who he used to work at WOTC.

At worlds 97, I passed on 150 straight from the pack mint Beta Bolts for $1 each.....dumbass I am.

Later EddieO

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Post by magicmisprints » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:12 am

EddieO wrote:I have no clue what he wants for the sheet, didn't ask....he knows I deal a lot in the art, so I told him I would ask around on it for him...

Worlds was a weird event....both 97 and 98....1998 I bought 4 blue hurricanes from my buddy larry, who he used to work at WOTC.

At worlds 97, I passed on 150 straight from the pack mint Beta Bolts for $1 each.....dumbass I am.

Later EddieO
You know, in that case, I know I have met your friend - he also owned the Lich painting - and I have probably also met you!

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