Inquiries about Art misprints

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dragsamou
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Post by dragsamou » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:13 pm

cataclysm80 wrote:
dragsamou wrote: === 4th edition: German ===
Forest (4E-german): One Forest card has the picture for a Plains.

Is that correct? My own German Forest/Plains is Black Bordered. Does a White Border version exist?

Tav
Hi Tav

Mine too. But, I did collect this info from the internet, now for Magiclibrarities as usual to verify if it's true or not. Cause the main problem with those German Misprints is that even Germans don't know so far. So, I can't blame, any US or else sellers to write either Revised or 4th Edition, for all those 3 Misprints. This is a German Story, who said that the French were messy lol So far the only Release dates for Revised that are 100% Sure are the English and French ones and the Edizione Italiana :-D
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Post by cataclysm80 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:34 pm

dragsamou wrote: === 4th edition: German ===
Drudge Skeletons: The early printings of German 4E Drudge Skeletons have the borders and art for a swamp. This error may also exist in the German Revised, perhaps unlimited german revised only?
dragsamou wrote: at any rate, it's clear that the Drudge Skeletons/Swamp is a double mistake from WOTC as it didn't get corrected in 4th Edition
We've confirmed that the Drudge Skeletons misprint exists in German Revised as multiple people here have personaly opened packs containing the card. I'm not so sure whether that misprint exists in German 4th or not. Here in the USA many people assume that cards with 1995 copyright are 4th Edition, and that is why you see Ebay auctions for Foreign 4th Edition Dual Lands. If someone were to claim that the Drudge Skeletons misprint is from early 4th Edition, then I would have to wonder if they were actually talking about 3rd Edition, since both have a 1995 copyright in German.

A regular print Drudge Skeletons does exist. Here is a link showing the misprint and regular side by side. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MTG-MAGIC-THE-G ... 545wt_1043
Tav

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mmgun
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Post by mmgun » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:06 pm

picture time.

There is no WB Forest Plains misprint.

Image


Image

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Post by cataclysm80 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:13 pm

Many thanks for those excellenct pictures! It helps a lot that multiple cards are in the picture becuase that way the cards dimensions will stay the same relative to each other when I enlarge the picture. I have enlarged the pictures significantly on my computer and held a fine measuring device up to the screen for comparison of those cards.

The card name IS positioned slightly closer to the art box on 3rd Edition. It is a very small difference, and I really needed to enlarge the picutre a lot and use a measuring device to see it.

Both of those Manabarbs are from 3rd edition. The regular one is a Manabarbs, and the misprint one is a Sedge Troll with Manabarbs text. I suspect we will not find any regular printed 3rd Edition Sedge Trolls, but a 4th edition Manabarbs should exist.

The Hypnotic Specter on top is from 3rd edition. The Hypnotic Specter on bottom is from 4th edition.

The Earthquake on top (Jedem) is from 4th edition. The Earthquake on bottom (Jeden) is from 3rd edition.

The Drudge Skeletons on top is from 4th edition. The misprint Drudge Skeletons on bottom is 3rd edition. This one was more difficult. It turns out that the art border is larger on a Land than on the other cards, so I had to measure to the inner edge of the white card border instead of to the art box frame. We will need similar pictures of some German Swamps to finish solving whether the misprint is a Drudge Skeleton with Swamp picture, or a Swamp with Drudge Skeleton text.
(UPDATE: After comparison with some more cards, I think this regular printed Drudge Skeletons is actually 3rd edition, not 4th.)

Both of those El-Hajjaj are from 4th edition. The regular one is an El-Hajjaj, and the misprint one is a Warp Artifact with El-Hajjaj text. I suspect we will not find any regular printed 4th edition Warp Artifacts, but a 3rd edition of both El-Hajjaj and Warp Artifact should exist.

Tav
Last edited by cataclysm80 on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by dragsamou » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:53 pm

cataclysm80 wrote:
dragsamou wrote: === 4th edition: German ===
Drudge Skeletons: The early printings of German 4E Drudge Skeletons have the borders and art for a swamp. This error may also exist in the German Revised, perhaps unlimited german revised only?
dragsamou wrote: at any rate, it's clear that the Drudge Skeletons/Swamp is a double mistake from WOTC as it didn't get corrected in 4th Edition
We've confirmed that the Drudge Skeletons misprint exists in German Revised as multiple people here have personaly opened packs containing the card. I'm not so sure whether that misprint exists in German 4th or not. Here in the USA many people assume that cards with 1995 copyright are 4th Edition, and that is why you see Ebay auctions for Foreign 4th Edition Dual Lands. If someone were to claim that the Drudge Skeletons misprint is from early 4th Edition, then I would have to wonder if they were actually talking about 3rd Edition, since both have a 1995 copyright in German.

A regular print Drudge Skeletons does exist. Here is a link showing the misprint and regular side by side. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MTG-MAGIC-THE-G ... 545wt_1043
Tav
Hi Tav

Great find, now is that Normal Drudge Skeletons from Revised or 4Th Edition German ?
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Post by dragsamou » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:00 pm

cataclysm80 wrote:Many thanks for those excellenct pictures! It helps a lot that multiple cards are in the picture becuase that way the cards dimensions will stay the same relative to each other when I enlarge the picture. I have enlarged the pictures significantly on my computer and held a fine measuring device up to the screen for comparison of those cards.

The card name IS positioned slightly closer to the art box on 3rd Edition. It is a very small difference, and I really needed to enlarge the picutre a lot and use a measuring device to see it.

Both of those Manabarbs are from 3rd edition. The regular one is a Manabarbs, and the misprint one is a Sedge Troll with Manabarbs text. I suspect we will not find any regular printed 3rd Edition Sedge Trolls, but a 4th edition Manabarbs should exist.

The Hypnotic Specter on top is from 3rd edition. The Hypnotic Specter on bottom is from 4th edition.

The Earthquake on top (Jedem) is from 4th edition. The Earthquake on bottom (Jeden) is from 3rd edition.

The Drudge Skeletons on top is from 4th edition. The misprint Drudge Skeletons on bottom is 3rd edition. This one was more difficult. It turns out that the art border is larger on a Land than on the other cards, so I had to measure to the inner edge of the white card border instead of to the art box frame. We will need similar pictures of some German Swamps to finish solving whether the misprint is a Drudge Skeleton with Swamp picture, or a Swamp with Drudge Skeleton text.

Both of those El-Hajjaj are from 4th edition. The regular one is an El-Hajjaj, and the misprint one is a Warp Artifact with El-Hajjaj text. I suspect we will not find any regular printed 4th edition Warp Artifacts, but a 3rd edition of both El-Hajjaj and Warp Artifact should exist.

Tav
OMG Tav...Are you working for CSI: Miami lol I'm getting a coffee, then will edit the list...Great Job =D> EDIT: List updated, have a look to make sure everything's correct. Thanks
Last edited by dragsamou on Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dragsamou » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:01 pm

mmgun wrote:picture time.

There is no WB Forest Plains misprint.
Thanks mmgun. Great progress on the German Misprint Quest =D>
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Post by ende73 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:11 pm

I am pretty sure (but this time 99% and not 101%) that I got regular WB German Drudge Skeletons from some of those same packs where I got the swamp misprint, and as I mentioned those packs were from 3rd edition (the one with Dual lands).

Please note this all happened back in 1995, so it's quite possible my memory is failing me on this further issue.

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Post by dragsamou » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:27 pm

ende73 wrote:I am pretty sure (but this time 99% and not 101%) that I got regular WB German Drudge Skeletons from some of those same packs where I got the swamp misprint, and as I mentioned those packs were from 3rd edition (the one with Dual lands).

Please note this all happened back in 1995, so it's quite possible my memory is failing me on this further issue.
Hi Enrico

Ok, we will wait then, to make sure a Normal Drudge Skeletons exists from Revised German...99% is real good but not as good as 101% :)
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Post by mmgun » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:09 pm

cataclysm80 wrote: Both of those Manabarbs are from 3rd edition. The regular one is a Manabarbs, and the misprint one is a Sedge Troll with Manabarbs text. I suspect we will not find any regular printed 3rd Edition Sedge Trolls, but a 4th edition Manabarbs should exist.
correct, there are no german 3rd WB Sedge Trolls listed on MCM, they even use the french picture, where for all other cards they use german pics.
cataclysm80 wrote: Both of those El-Hajjaj are from 4th edition. The regular one is an El-Hajjaj, and the misprint one is a Warp Artifact with El-Hajjaj text. I suspect we will not find any regular printed 4th edition Warp Artifacts, but a 3rd edition of both El-Hajjaj and Warp Artifact should exist.
Tav
Also true, but here MCM offers many 4th german Warp Artifact.
But i am sure these are either wrong listed from 3rd or ( as already noted for some) from 1996 2PS starter set.

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Post by dragsamou » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:44 am

mmgun wrote: correct, there are no german 3rd WB Sedge Trolls listed on MCM, they even use the french picture, where for all other cards they use german pics.

Also true, but here MCM offers many 4th german Warp Artifact.
But i am sure these are either wrong listed from 3rd or ( as already noted for some) from 1996 2PS starter set.
Hi

It's not because a card is not on MCM that it means, it doesn't exist. Let's keep finding answers, with 101% proof (As Enrico will say). 10 questions, still have no answers #-o

According to this: Unlimitierte Auflage

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/magic-s ... black.html
El-Hajjáj (El-Hajjâj)
Card title modified
All copies misprinted: wrong artwork

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/magic-s ... n-red.html
Schilftroll (Sedge Troll)
All copies misprinted: Wrong card title (Manahaken), casting cost, card type, rule text, artist, missing power/toughness

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/magic-s ... -land.html
Sumpf (version 3)Swamp
Some copies misprinted: Wrong card title (Herr der geplagten Skelette), casting cost, card type, rule text, flavor text, power/toughness, artist
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Post by Default User » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:28 pm

dragsamou wrote: Hi

It's not because a card is not on MCM that it means, it doesn't exist. Let's keep finding answers, with 101% proof (As Enrico will say). 10 questions, still have no answers #-o

According to this: Unlimitierte Auflage

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/magic-s ... black.html
El-Hajjáj (El-Hajjâj)
Card title modified
All copies misprinted: wrong artwork

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/magic-s ... n-red.html
Schilftroll (Sedge Troll)
All copies misprinted: Wrong card title (Manahaken), casting cost, card type, rule text, artist, missing power/toughness

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/magic-s ... -land.html
Sumpf (version 3)Swamp
Some copies misprinted: Wrong card title (Herr der geplagten Skelette), casting cost, card type, rule text, flavor text, power/toughness, artist
Back from long vacation so I can again contribute a little.

I can confirm some things after opening some product and collecting some of the misprints. I will need to take scans and double check, but the Drudge Skeleton/Swamp is definately from revised and there's also regular unlimited edition Drudge Skeletons, as the card appears several times on the common sheets and only one art is wrong. In the German fourth edition there's no misprinted Drudge Skeletons. The ö is not indicative of the set as with ü, ä and ö all use rounded dots always. (not that germanuse ä, but maybe we can get some finnish cards at some point...) I have 100+ of these misprints at home on top of regular Skeletons from both sets.

For the Sedge Troll/Manabarbs, there are also regular Manabarbs in wb revised, but I've never seen a correct Sedge Troll from the set, altought I haven't opened enough product to be completely certain. I have 9 misprints and 4 correct Manabarbs at home.

As for the El-Hajjâj/Warp Artifact, I need to check my copies. I should have couple misprints still left. I first bought these as being from wb revised, but it could easily have been just mistake from the seller. I think that I also have a revised copy of correct El-Hajjâj hidden somewhere at home and MCM has a scan of wb german revised regular copy, so I would guess thet the misprint is from 4th.

As for german wb Warp Artifact it's almost impossible to tell if it's actually from either rv or 4th, as it doesn't have any easy letters (Verformtes Artefakt). So while there are plenty of sellers on MCM for both versions of the card on sale, people might have mistaken the editions pretty easily. But there's also plenty of normal german 4th edition german El-Hajjâj's on sale, so there's no good indication for either way from MCM.

Both wb revised and 4th ed had 121 rares so there should only be one version of each rare on the 11x11 sheet, which makes possibly having extra version implausible, unless they used some other sheet size or as others have pointed out the Rivalries/2ps starter boxes version of Warp Artifact explain the correct 4th ed german Warps (on top of the misidentified revised versions) being on sale.

I'll try to check my misprints during this week if I get the time and double check if I have forgotten something.

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Post by dragsamou » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Default User wrote:
dragsamou wrote: Hi

It's not because a card is not on MCM that it means, it doesn't exist. Let's keep finding answers, with 101% proof (As Enrico will say). 10 questions, still have no answers #-o

According to this: Unlimitierte Auflage

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/magic-s ... black.html
El-Hajjáj (El-Hajjâj)
Card title modified
All copies misprinted: wrong artwork

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/magic-s ... n-red.html
Schilftroll (Sedge Troll)
All copies misprinted: Wrong card title (Manahaken), casting cost, card type, rule text, artist, missing power/toughness

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/magic-s ... -land.html
Sumpf (version 3)Swamp
Some copies misprinted: Wrong card title (Herr der geplagten Skelette), casting cost, card type, rule text, flavor text, power/toughness, artist
Back from long vacation so I can again contribute a little.

I can confirm some things after opening some product and collecting some of the misprints. I will need to take scans and double check, but the Drudge Skeleton/Swamp is definately from revised and there's also regular unlimited edition Drudge Skeletons, as the card appears several times on the common sheets and only one art is wrong. In the German fourth edition there's no misprinted Drudge Skeletons. The ö is not indicative of the set as with ü, ä and ö all use rounded dots always. (not that germanuse ä, but maybe we can get some finnish cards at some point...) I have 100+ of these misprints at home on top of regular Skeletons from both sets.

For the Sedge Troll/Manabarbs, there are also regular Manabarbs in wb revised, but I've never seen a correct Sedge Troll from the set, altought I haven't opened enough product to be completely certain. I have 9 misprints and 4 correct Manabarbs at home.

As for the El-Hajjâj/Warp Artifact, I need to check my copies. I should have couple misprints still left. I first bought these as being from wb revised, but it could easily have been just mistake from the seller. I think that I also have a revised copy of correct El-Hajjâj hidden somewhere at home and MCM has a scan of wb german revised regular copy, so I would guess thet the misprint is from 4th.

As for german wb Warp Artifact it's almost impossible to tell if it's actually from either rv or 4th, as it doesn't have any easy letters (Verformtes Artefakt). So while there are plenty of sellers on MCM for both versions of the card on sale, people might have mistaken the editions pretty easily. But there's also plenty of normal german 4th edition german El-Hajjâj's on sale, so there's no good indication for either way from MCM.

Both wb revised and 4th ed had 121 rares so there should only be one version of each rare on the 11x11 sheet, which makes possibly having extra version implausible, unless they used some other sheet size or as others have pointed out the Rivalries/2ps starter boxes version of Warp Artifact explain the correct 4th ed german Warps (on top of the misidentified revised versions) being on sale.

I'll try to check my misprints during this week if I get the time and double check if I have forgotten something.

--
Tuomas
Hi Tuomas

Great post =D> Have a look at my Questions list on Page 1, once you check your misprints, so I can add Exist or Not Exist.
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Post by mmgun » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:07 pm

More scans for personal headache and CSI measurement investigations.

Ornitopher 3rd WB is correct, 4th version is misspelled.

Cursed land, both versions are wrong according to what the card does ( both say the the land deals the damage, but it should be the enchantment, 3rd BB and 2PS version is correct)
Additionally 3rd WB uses wrong article "der", it should be "das" as seen on 4th version

Image


Here i had to use magnifying glasses to spot the difference on the swamps for 3rd wb and 4th. The positioning of "Land" and "Sumpf" in deed varies about 1 mm. I took mountains as reference, as they are easy to identify because of the dot in letter "i", and they show the same difference as the swamps.
I also added a 2PS swamp version. Happy investigation :)


Image

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Post by dragsamou » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:21 pm

Hi mmgun

Does it mean that Normal Swamp Version exist in Revised and 4th Edition from the scans, you post?
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