Double Crimp Cards ?

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dragsamou
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Double Crimp Cards ?

Post by dragsamou » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:42 pm

Hi Members

As someone, asked me, if they do exist. I could only reply that I own one and that I got it from a more than serious person. Any input on this? Just added a scan.

Image

Image
Last edited by dragsamou on Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tha_Gunslinga » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:44 pm

I have a few. They are real.

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Post by dragsamou » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:47 pm

Tha_Gunslinga wrote:I have a few. They are real.
Thanks, I bet, you will be the one answering this. So, I can reply that those are not fakes :) Now, how this can happened, I really don't know, maybe a Specialist like Hammer7 can share his science. EDIT: Henry told me that Double Crimps are real, and will explain later :)
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Post by gzeiger » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:51 am

I'd guess that the normal booster wrapping process has each pack crimped separately a short distance apart, and then the wrappers are cut apart between the crimps. I have a couple cards where the crimp is very deep into the card, as yours is, and the top or bottom is cut off just above or below the crimp. This Plague Spores evidently missed the final step where it would have been cut between the two crimps.

My guess anyway.

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Post by vegas10 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:18 am

Learned something new I have heard a few say that these don't exist, but now I have seen one and it was confirmed by a very good source as well, very cool. Sorry can't really add on how this could have happened.

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Post by hammr7 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:42 am

If you ever saw a packaging line, it is a continuous process. Giant rolls of printed film are fed in at one end. You might have seen segments of these films offer for sale on places like Ebay (I once had a 35 ft length of Tempest packaging film, and a smaller piece of Visions film, I purchased there).

Anyway, the film gets unrolled on the functional equivalent of a conveyer belt. The printed side is face down. As it moves along it reaches a station where the appropriate pile of cards get added. Once the cards are placed on the film the foil is wrapped around in a tube by mechanical guides. The tube is sealed along the way, either by heat or glue or a combination of both. The line is precise enough so this sealed tube doesn't combine the various stacks of cards. At least that is what is supposed to happen. The tube moves along to a station that seals (crimps) between two stacks of cards (i.e. the bottom of one pack and the top of the next pack). Then the tube is moved a certain distance forward and the sealer (crimper) comes down again, completing a seal on the pack that was half done, and simultaneously doing the first seal on the next pack.

When the packs are sealed on both ends, a knife edge cuts through the middle of the seal, effectively cutting the completely sealed packs from one another. In some packaging machines the cut is immediate after each seal (crimp). In others the cutter is a small distance from the sealing station.

Card crimps occur when the sealing machine doesn't work perfectly. Instead of sealing between two packs of cards, the sealer comes down (usually with a great deal of pressure) on one or more cards in the pack. This may be occur for any number of reasons, but the reason that gets a double crimp is as follows:

The foil sheet isn't moving as it should (the wheels or idlers that measure distance think the foil should have moved the right distance when in fact the film moved less). The sealer comes down on a card instead of between stacks of cards- this causes the first crimp. Something now causes the machine to not advance the foil (and cards) much at at, but the machine thinks the foil advanced by the proper distance. Now the sealing machine comes down again - causing the second crimp.

Basically, double crimps happen when the packaging foil gets jammed enough to severely slow or stop the foil from moving, while the sealing station thinks everything is moving the proper amounts.

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Post by dragsamou » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:38 am

hammr7 wrote:If you ever saw a packaging line, it is a continuous process. Giant rolls of printed film are fed in at one end. You might have seen segments of these films offer for sale on places like Ebay (I once had a 35 ft length of Tempest packaging film, and a smaller piece of Visions film, I purchased there).

Anyway, the film gets unrolled on the functional equivalent of a conveyer belt. The printed side is face down. As it moves along it reaches a station where the appropriate pile of cards get added. Once the cards are placed on the film the foil is wrapped around in a tube by mechanical guides. The tube is sealed along the way, either by heat or glue or a combination of both. The line is precise enough so this sealed tube doesn't combine the various stacks of cards. At least that is what is supposed to happen. The tube moves along to a station that seals (crimps) between two stacks of cards (i.e. the bottom of one pack and the top of the next pack). Then the tube is moved a certain distance forward and the sealer (crimper) comes down again, completing a seal on the pack that was half done, and simultaneously doing the first seal on the next pack.

When the packs are sealed on both ends, a knife edge cuts through the middle of the seal, effectively cutting the completely sealed packs from one another. In some packaging machines the cut is immediate after each seal (crimp). In others the cutter is a small distance from the sealing station.

Card crimps occur when the sealing machine doesn't work perfectly. Instead of sealing between two packs of cards, the sealer comes down (usually with a great deal of pressure) on one or more cards in the pack. This may be occur for any number of reasons, but the reason that gets a double crimp is as follows:

The foil sheet isn't moving as it should (the wheels or idlers that measure distance think the foil should have moved the right distance when in fact the film moved less). The sealer comes down on a card instead of between stacks of cards- this causes the first crimp. Something now causes the machine to not advance the foil (and cards) much at at, but the machine thinks the foil advanced by the proper distance. Now the sealing machine comes down again - causing the second crimp.

Basically, double crimps happen when the packaging foil gets jammed enough to severely slow or stop the foil from moving, while the sealing station thinks everything is moving the proper amounts.
Thanks Henry, I'm always impressed by your precised and clear technical explanations =D>
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Post by TheQuest » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:51 am

hammr7 wrote: Basically, double crimps happen when the packaging foil gets jammed enough to severely slow or stop the foil from moving, while the sealing station thinks everything is moving the proper amounts.
Well, does this mean that there is a possibility for a triple-quadruple crimping?

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Post by mmgun » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:01 am

TheQuest wrote:
hammr7 wrote: Basically, double crimps happen when the packaging foil gets jammed enough to severely slow or stop the foil from moving, while the sealing station thinks everything is moving the proper amounts.
Well, does this mean that there is a possibility for a triple-quadruple crimping?
Somebody from QA will press Emergency Stop button before, i bet.

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Post by dragsamou » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:09 am

TheQuest wrote:
hammr7 wrote: Basically, double crimps happen when the packaging foil gets jammed enough to severely slow or stop the foil from moving, while the sealing station thinks everything is moving the proper amounts.
Well, does this mean that there is a possibility for a triple-quadruple crimping?
This is indeed , a good question, I never saw on my part a Triple Crimped card.
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Post by hammr7 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:10 pm

As a postscript, many times a crimp happens because the top card in a stack of cards slides a bit, either forward or backward, compared to the rest of the cards in the stack. This is why there are sometimes top crimps and sometimes bottom crimps.

If only one card slides, if it slides enough, and if the foil cutter is sharp enough, you will sometimes cut through both the wrapping foil and the card. This is one way you can sometimes find a mis-cut crimped card that is smaller vertically than a normal card should be.

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