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pp
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Post by pp » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:23 pm

No need to defend yourself, Alexis. You are providing a great, free service, and all you get is critics.

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dragsamou
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Post by dragsamou » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:24 pm

Worth wrote:I agree at least a little with that sentiment. Heck, even ONE other person who had access to "the keys to the kingdom" as it were, in case something happened to the other.

Lots of history here that would be a crying shame to lose for something as silly as not having someone else with access if something awful happened.
Hi Worth.
Someone else has access , since the beginning, my webmaster, a friend of mine. So, in the case, I would have lost my life, he will have been the one taking care of the situation.
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Post by dragsamou » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:31 pm

pp wrote:No need to defend yourself, Alexis. You are providing a great, free service, and all you get is critics.
Hi Patrick
It's not the first time, I get this kind of attitude from Magic Belgium, towards me, but my inbox is full of messages of his behaviors towards different Members and complaining about him. He's a talker taker not a giver. So coming from him, I could care less about his comments, but I did reply to it.
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Post by Worth » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:40 pm

That's good, that's all I meant Alexis.

No disrespect of course, just wanted to make sure if something unthinkable happened that all your hard work wouldn't be wasted.

No offense intended.

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Post by dragsamou » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:45 pm

Worth wrote:That's good, that's all I meant Alexis.

No disrespect of course, just wanted to make sure if something unthinkable happened that all your hard work wouldn't be wasted.

No offense intended.
I didn't feel offensed at all by your post. You ask a simple question, I give a simple answer. And I forgot, my son also, in case of fatal issue will be the one dealing with situations, including this website.
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magic-belgium
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Post by magic-belgium » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:01 pm

That's all good then.

I never used this website to make business :-D I was more used than the other way round. But I made truly good friends all over the world.

All things I sold were at cost always and to help other members. That's not always the case on the website. But everyone is free to be part of the community and deal with it his own way.

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but I owe nothing to anyone here :-)

Moreover, I never trade, so it would be difficult to have problems.

The only problem I have is that I buy a lot (too much), and I am disorganised. So it takes time to have deals ended when there are deals. That's all.

In my post, I was just mentioning things that other members stated in the past, and did not dare say publicly, because your reactions scared them.

But as you made things clear enough in your post, then so be it. I'm glad that everything is organised just in case...

EDIT : on a side note, not donating was a choice. It's not a question of generosity... Some members know me enough here.
We kind of have you and I an incompatible way of communicating, therefore, we never had the chance to make friends.
I regret it, but you can't be loved by everyone, can you ?
Last edited by magic-belgium on Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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dragsamou
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Post by dragsamou » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:03 pm

random wrote:
It is always easy for the person in the tree
To tell the fellow on the ground
How to get away from the bear.


I was enlisted so I think you were the person in the tree more often than me Gary :wink:
I'll be sending something but would like to provide something more in the way of long term support and some kind of backup in case a disaster should happen.


I was alluding to a long term plan in my post. It makes no sense obviously for someone to pay to maintain the site by themselves (without any real incentives)and obviously after some time it becomes a burden and people get burned out and whatever... what's the upside being the Dragsamou?
The guy before him (right before he abandoned running the site and turned it over do to real life issues which the current Mod is facing himself) had an idea to produce a print or something and wanted John Avon to do the artwork and then the idea was for people to buy a limited print or card or whatever- This never panned out-
A few years later another site I follow (D&D rarities site) actually accomplished doing the same basic thing (produce a print which was bought by members...) and it actually worked and they're doing it again-
So, my input is that this is a non profit site and often times people are wondering where Dragsamou is or why nobody is doing anything or whatever... Am I wrong? So, it's kinda thankless on his end for the most part -till now as he's getting donations? How long does that last though? How often will people ship $$ into a vacuum or assume that they already did their part or whatever... what if the donations dried up? Then we move on to the next guy?
What I'm saying is that basically the last guy was right and had a legitimate idea that wasn't followed through upon. It is a viable way to generate some revenue (assuming of course the support exists). Being a rarities site basically the concept is to create a cool rarity- For the TSR crowd all it took was a print by popular TSR artists. I dunno if that would satisfy the WOTC crowd but it's possible?
I'd imagine that if this site has little-no upside asides the MTG prestige of running the site brings (whatever that might be) then we will be looking at a new Mod at some point when Drags bills mount and real life stuff is too much to deal with. That's logical I think? If this site had some project/s and some source of revenue to where it wasn't an all out time burden/labor of love deal it might be a positive stressor instead of probably e negative one for the person running it.
Hi
Will reply to your post, but tomorrow, I need to have a lil diner, have almost 15 kilos to get back , for the moment, you can slide me under the door. I didn't loose my wicked sense of humor on the road héhé
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Post by mystical_tutor » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:34 am

dragsamou wrote:Hi
Will reply to your post, but tomorrow, I need to have a lil diner, have almost 15 kilos to get back , for the moment, you can slide me under the door. I didn't loose my wicked sense of humor on the road héhé
Alexis; No problem at all, I have about 15 kilos I'd be glad to give you.....

Gary.

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Post by hammr7 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:08 am

As someone who was intimately involved in the original investigation into commercializing custom MTG artwork, I need to tell you it is not an easy way to make money, even as a long term plan. I know, because I did the costing exercises for Ralph, when we originally considered turning artwork into production (posters, cards, or whatever) and then delivering them to a worldwide clientele.

If you do the production cheap (and I am not even factoring in the cost of the artwork) you can't make money because fewer want something "cheap". If you do it nice the cost is higher, and you price out many potential purchasers. If you try to make it nice and limited edition you put an immediate ceiling on how much you can raise. And in every scenario you need to factor in global delivery costs.

You need only look at the poster and token efforts around the world. For every one that works out, there are numerous others that never break even, or don't break even for years. This is one reason why so many fantasy artists have so many limited edition items on their websites. They basically make the artwork for next to nothing (at least up front), but even when offered in small batches (supposedly to make them more desirable) they usually languish.

This isn't to say it can't be done. It is just to say that without a lot of planning, such an undertaking can easily become a money pit, which is the opposite of what is currently needed.

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Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:41 am

Good points of course, you need to find money for the initial outlay before you can make any back.

Artwork is of course in the eye of the beholder and may not appeal to many on the site, I for one wouldn't mind donating a small amount to the site but wouldn't pay a significant amount for a print, I already have too many original artworks rolled up in poster tubes.

Anything digital can be sent without postage costs, access to a special members only area of the site, a cool program for organising your cards etc. Too many free things on the web for that though. Charging for membership puts newcomers off.

What about things like Magiclibrarities branded life counters, or tokens, that sort of thing. I don't play anymore but they would be cool to have. Small enough to post and no need to get any original art commissioned.

Of course there is always site sponsorship from a company, might as well get in before they realise that it makes no difference to their sales and they stop offering.

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Post by Hayden » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:42 am

dragsamou wrote:Situation has changed since I almost lost my life, did I ever ask something when I lost 4 members of my family or took care of my mother for a year when she was having leukemia...Answer is No
If those things happened to most other people they probably would have just walked away from something so relatively unimportant (don't get me wrong I love this site) as a website. But alas you have endured and are still here for all of us.

Alexis, I know we have not conversed much through the years but you certainly have my respect. =D>

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Post by sdematt » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:49 am

Thanks for everything! Hope you get well soon! :D

-Matt, Beta dual whore extraordinaire
"I'm your Huckleberry"

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Post by dragsamou » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:00 am

hammr7 wrote:As someone who was intimately involved in the original investigation into commercializing custom MTG artwork, I need to tell you it is not an easy way to make money, even as a long term plan. I know, because I did the costing exercises for Ralph, when we originally considered turning artwork into production (posters, cards, or whatever) and then delivering them to a worldwide clientele.

If you do the production cheap (and I am not even factoring in the cost of the artwork) you can't make money because fewer want something "cheap". If you do it nice the cost is higher, and you price out many potential purchasers. If you try to make it nice and limited edition you put an immediate ceiling on how much you can raise. And in every scenario you need to factor in global delivery costs.

You need only look at the poster and token efforts around the world. For every one that works out, there are numerous others that never break even, or don't break even for years. This is one reason why so many fantasy artists have so many limited edition items on their websites. They basically make the artwork for next to nothing (at least up front), but even when offered in small batches (supposedly to make them more desirable) they usually languish.

This isn't to say it can't be done. It is just to say that without a lot of planning, such an undertaking can easily become a money pit, which is the opposite of what is currently needed.
Hi Hank
I agree with you, this requires a serious planning. Thanks for your advice.
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Post by mystical_tutor » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:01 pm

Please let me look at this situation a bit:

1) The owner/operator of the site is Alexis.
2) He has kept the site free of annoying adds for years.
3) No one, not even himself, can count the time he has spent working on the site--a labor of love.
4) He has had a traumatic life situation.
5) He has turned to his friends and fellow collectors for some help to alleviate the present situation.
6) Advice is not help in the near term, no matter how good it is.

For each of us the question is:

What can I do to help.

I'm still working on that.

Gary

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Post by random » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:02 am

1) The owner/operator of the site is Alexis.
2) He has kept the site free of annoying adds for years.
3) No one, not even himself, can count the time he has spent working on the site--a labor of love.
4) He has had a traumatic life situation.
5) He has turned to his friends and fellow collectors for some help to alleviate the present situation.
6) Advice is not help in the near term, no matter how good it is.
By all means people should donate money if they're able and willing. I'd be happy to Paypal some money when funds hit my acct. Times are tough though... I'm doing OK and I guess that's better than most people. I have priorities- honestly hobby sites are a low priority.

"Advice" is not help in A LOT of cases EVER.
On the flip side, we ALL can look back and wish we took some advice in our lives, even when times were tough and we were preoccupied.

Maybe annoying banner ads will help. I'd have suggested that but it's obvious.

300 Euro or whatever makes this site go? 300 Euro is probably a pittance to the real problem though. I'm guessing 300+ Euro will be donated. Then what?
I'm still working on that.
You wont have it figured out by then unless you meet some MTG philanthropist...
Donations could/will continue? For how long Gary?
Advice is not help in the near term, no matter how good it is.
So I'll give my "advice" next year? Dragsamous issues will all go on Summer vacation and I'll give my advice then?
No one, not even himself, can count the time he has spent working on the site--a labor of love.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this site was 2 other peoples "labor of love" before Drag and they got burned out/quit?
He has had a traumatic life situation.
Life goes on. He wants to keep running the site and keeping his ownership. He needs $$ and obviously been through a tough skid.
This is the story of most of the world right now Gary. You think donations and "immediate" help will be ongoing for an extended period of time? Cause that's the trouble. This is an extended problem. This isn't a "present situation" unless I'm mistaken?

I'm not trying to antagonize anybody (on this thread:)

I don't think there's a short term solution for the "problem". It seems obvious to me that this site needs to generate revenue, OR, Drag is faced with negative options.
Donations, they will keep this site running and everything will be OK?
I don't believe the above will happen "long term". I also don't believe Drag will be able to continue to spend "thousands of hours" working on the site when he has to be working to pay his hit and run bills and whatnot. Who does not agree with my logic?

If you do agree with my logic (or at least partially agree) then this site has to generate revenue. If my idea is the suxxors then Drag needs better advice/ideas.

As someone who was intimately involved in the original investigation into commercializing custom MTG artwork, I need to tell you it is not an easy way to make money, even as a long term plan. I know, because I did the costing exercises for Ralph, when we originally considered turning artwork into production (posters, cards, or whatever) and then delivering them to a worldwide clientele.
-please show me pieces of art that you commissioned and projects you've been apart of. You emailed some artist/s and printing companies? What else do you "know" about producing this stuff. I can email an artist and if he's hungry I'll get a deal. If he's busy he'll ask for 5-8-10K or ignore me or tell me to fuck off. Do you know what WOTC pays for artwork? Do you know what other companies pay for art? Do you know what artists need work?
If you do the production cheap (and I am not even factoring in the cost of the artwork) you can't make money because fewer want something "cheap". If you do it nice the cost is higher, and you price out many potential purchasers. If you try to make it nice and limited edition you put an immediate ceiling on how much you can raise. And in every scenario you need to factor in global delivery costs.
This is true but then this is a COLLECTORS site. People here tend to own "rarity" items which means $$- limited editions and nice ones are indeed $$ but then that's the name of the game on this site, no? Shipping, everyone has to pay for their own shipping. Collectors are accustomed to it.
This is one reason why so many fantasy artists have so many limited edition items on their websites.
The reason they keep making them is cause they don't sell? "Fantasy artists" can have a very narrow profit margin and they're screwing around with unprofitable methods year after year?
Brom/Donato make $$$$$$$ - Larry Elmore for decades made all his income off of prints- he has a limited edition and then when it sells out he prints up another limited edition. Then the art books. The trading cards, screen savers, mouse pads. You know more than those guys about what sells? "Good" original art is evergreen- how do you think digital art makes money these days? You think these guys do 10 pieces of digital art per year for WOTC and it pays the bills all year long and WOTC covers the 401K or what?
such an undertaking can easily become a money pit
This is true. With mostly anything a project could fail. Such is life. I don't think there's a silver bullet "option" asides continued donations.
Is that realistic? Reading what has been written I'm assuming more might need to happen. Maybe I'm completely out of touch with reality-
I wont post on this thread anymore and here I apologize for antagonizing/beating a dead horse.

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