New Menber axlk69

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axlk69
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:34 am
Location: Austria

New Menber axlk69

Post by axlk69 » Sat May 21, 2016 8:33 am

Hello to everybody!
I´m a new user, located in Austria and MTG collector since 2007.
I´m mainly collecting in English and German and have some spezial interest in things like "fourth alternate" or Ice Age Glossy and so on.
One of the biggest mysteries for me ist the difference between German White border and 4th Edition german.
I have to excuse for my bad English, so I hope everything I write will be understandable.
Sorry, my English might be sometimes incorrect.
Ask, if you don´t understand thing I´ll write

GlobalBoosterHunter
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Re: New Menber axlk69

Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Sat May 21, 2016 10:29 pm

Hi there!

I started collecting a bit earlier than that, mostly just the sets as they came out but I have recently started collecting sealed boosters. I was playing during Ice Ages, never even noticed that some cards were glossy!

axlk69
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Re: New Menber axlk69

Post by axlk69 » Sun May 22, 2016 4:31 am

GlobalBoosterHunter wrote:Hi there!

I started collecting a bit earlier than that, mostly just the sets as they came out but I have recently started collecting sealed boosters. I was playing during Ice Ages, never even noticed that some cards were glossy!
Yes they are. There´s another Thread here: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=9629
The finishes of the Ice Age cards are very different and many of those finishes, one could say are of a very bad quality. they look crumbly and it´s hard to say, if the card ist played or not. Other finishes look good and the surface of these cards will show, whether the card is in good shape or not.
The glossy finish (it really reflects light better) can also be found on Alliances Cards and I think I can remember, also on Homelands Cards.
WOTC has produced the cards in different Printing companies.
That might have been the reason for the different qualities and different finishes.
Mostly known is the story of the fourth alternate cards, cause the difference there is so big, that WOTC didn´t want these cards to be sold, but many of them leaked into market
There are also versions of cards (many editions) with a little dot on the back, versions with gray core, blue care and so on and so on.
These differences are not interesting for players but interesting for hardcore collectors like me.
Sorry, my English might be sometimes incorrect.
Ask, if you don´t understand thing I´ll write

cataclysm80
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Re: New Menber axlk69

Post by cataclysm80 » Sun May 22, 2016 5:49 pm

Great to have a new member here. Welcome to the group!

The Alternate 4th Edition cards were made by United States Playing Card Company using a stochastic printing process instead of halftone.
There are huge differences between the two if you look with magnification. Alternate 4th does not have a halftone rosette printing pattern.
You can look at your glossy cards under magnification to see which printing process was used.

Image

Tav

cataclysm80
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Re: New Menber axlk69

Post by cataclysm80 » Sun May 22, 2016 6:05 pm

The grey core cards are usually called black core cards. Should be the same thing.
They're made by another US printing company called Shepard Poorman, which printed Rivals Quick Start, Chinese 4th edition, Korean 4th edition, and maybe more.
If you look at the thin card edge under magnification, you can usually see the difference. (It helps if you have some of each to compare with.)


Carta Mundi printed the vast majority of cards on blue core card stock.
Carta Mundi printed cards were made in Belgium. They also opened up a Tennessee (USA) printing facility in 1996.
Magic cards were made at both locations.

Many years later, PBM Graphics & Yaquinto printed some Magic cards, and then Yaquinto was purchased by Carta Mundi.
Carta Mundi closed the Tennessee facility and moved everything to the Yaquinto facility they had purchased in Texas (USA).
That was quite awhile after the Ice Age timeframe that you are looking for though.


Your English is quite good!

Tav

cataclysm80
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Re: New Menber axlk69

Post by cataclysm80 » Sun May 22, 2016 6:25 pm

If you really want to compare gloss levels, then a gloss meter is the best way to do it.
They are not cheap though.

I had a friend with a gloss meter take readings on 84 random Collector's Edition & Beta cards.

Of this sampling...
78% of the Beta cards were less glossy than any Collector's Edition cards.
74% of Collectors Edition cards were more glossy than any Beta cards.

The remaining 22% of Beta cards & 26% of Collector's Edition cards were in the same gloss range. (overlap)

The less glossy cards are still coated with a wear coat, they just aren't as glossy.

All of these cards were made by Carta Mundi in Belgium.
There was a single Beta print run, and a single Collector's Edition print run (which included Domestic, International, & artist proofs).


Ice Age had multiple print runs.

The cards are coated in a clear wear coat. Carta Mundi prints other things besides Magic cards, and they (and other printing companies) keep different kinds of clear wear coat on hand for use on different projects.
The different wear coats are all clear, and it would be possible for a worker to grab the wrong one to refill the machine mid print run.

Another thing to keep in mind is that gloss level is essentially the smoothness of the surface, which is very much affected by the drying quality of the clear wear coat.
Temperature can have a big affect on drying quality (fast or slow drying). If the temperature is to high, then the wear coat will dry quickly and be more coarse since it doesn't have the time to flow out smooth and level. If the temperature is to low, then the wear coat will be smoother, but may take to long to dry, resulting in sheets sticking together on the stack.
Humidity can also have a big affect on drying quality. If the humidity is to high, then the surface will have a foggy less glossy look. This is called blush. Sometimes painters have problems with this on rainy days.

cataclysm80
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Re: New Menber axlk69

Post by cataclysm80 » Sun May 22, 2016 6:32 pm

Your interest in the difference between German FWB and German 4th may be very useful in this thread on that subject.
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=9321

Tav

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Knutsen
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Re: New Menber axlk69

Post by Knutsen » Wed May 25, 2016 7:25 am

Hallo Landesnachbar - Willkommen im Forum! :)

axlk69
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Re: New Menber axlk69

Post by axlk69 » Fri May 27, 2016 11:18 pm

Ok, I know why I came to this forum!
Thanks for the warm welcome and thanks for the flowers for my english!
You´ll regret them :))
So, the gray (black) core could maybe help, find the differnences between the fourth german and the foreign whitborder edition.
I´ll have a deeper look in the linked thread. Maybe I can help with what I´ve found out till now.
Greetings
Alex
Sorry, my English might be sometimes incorrect.
Ask, if you don´t understand thing I´ll write

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