New official article about magic counterfeits

[mintcollector]

Actually, they put Unglued 2 on "indefinite hiatus."  So it was officially possible, just that it seemed very unlikely.

Unglued 2 was shelved due to poor sales numbers of Unglued.  At the time Unlgued 2 was ready to go...and although money and time was invested in the research and creation of this set....actually going to press could not be cost justified, so the set was put on hold.  This is what I had heard from a fairly reliable source.

[l0qii]

If WOTC started to reprint cards previosuly stated they would never reprint and this would cause a giant drop in prices, causing economic grief to retailers, dealers, etc.  Doing this would undermine the collector market for M:TG.  I think the effects would be devastating and VERY dangerous for WOTC to eve consider.

I agree with this completely. I would also add that, even printing an official proxy, and attaching rules to it like it's not legal unless you also own an original, would violate the reprint policy and would not have any different effect on the market than a complete reprint. People would still use them without owning an original as many casual players do today. A reprint is a reprint.

I wouldn't put it past WotC to make a poor decision like this though. They've certainly done enough in the past to shake up the collector's market. They seem to have a very bipolar attitude towards it.

[squt]

Hey Loquii-

I agree that they've really botched stuff up in the past (chronicles, anyone?), but it seems like they've gotten better.  Is there something they've done recently that has honked you off?  I feel pretty safe about collecting old cards at this point...i think WOTC knows that an angryt mob would burn down their building if they reprinted the P9...even in proxy form.

I would probably be in that mob!

Squt

[l0qii]

Hey Loquii-

Is there something they've done recently that has honked you off?

Nothing specific, or dreadfully bad, but the fact that they reprint things like Underworld Dreams shows that they still like to toy with us a bit, and that they're not affraid to make bold decisions.

I do feel confidant that old cards will remain collectable no matter what they do, short of the entire industry shrivelling up and disappearing, but I don't write off the possibility that WotC could do something that caused a major shakeup to the current value of T1/OOP collectables. Remember what Elder Dragons were worth before Chronicles?

[squt]

At the time, I wasn't able to afford Elder Dragons, but I remember a lot of people being really pissed.  Same goes for when 4th came out (within months of each other, if I recall correctly) - people quit magic.  Their Carrion Ants were worthless.  Duals started to become valuable.

I think WOTC really learned a lesson there.  I know some people were irritated when UD was reprinted, but it seems like a lot of times the BB, Original Art version of cards actually appreciate in value when they are T2 playable.

Squt

[hammr7]

Lets not confuse collecters with players.  Collectors want one of each card from each set (or in my case, four of each card from each set).  Players want four of a card, unless its restricted, and don't care what set or sets they are from.  

If a player sees a new printing of Underword Dreams, he often sees a cheaper opportunity to get four of the card, and he might sell older versions to get more money for other purchases.  As he matures (or gets a little wealthier) he might prefer using the older black-bordered version.  Unless he wants to pre-construct several decks, he never needs more than four copies of any card.

If a collector sees a new printing of Underworld Dreams, it is within the context of another set he needs to collect.  He's trying to complete both the newer set and the Legends set.  

If I remember correctly, Chronicles is an "official" set, with cards that are tournament legal (since they were parts of earlier sets that are tournament legal).  Players could use cards in place of more expensive versions from earlier sets.  It is not a proxy set, or a "non-tournament" reprint like collector's edition or the world championship decks.  Having said that, collectors understand that Chronicles is a reprint set.  Its version of the Elder Dragons go for $10 to $15, whereas the Legends cards go for ~$50.

Also, when rating Wizards market savvy, lets stick to more modern times.  Chronicles came out in August of 1995.  This was only a year after the underproduced Legends (which sold out in about a month), and 2 years after the game started.  At that time there were very few Magic collectors, as cards were going to players and to a few big speculators (~ 70% of all early issues were sold into the U S Southwest - Arizona, New Mexico, and Southern California).    

Finally, it is the strong, more recent, emergence of collectors that most threaten T1.  In amassing my "collector's" collection, I'm permanently removing cards from play.  I now know more collectors than I do players, and they are doing the same.  What happens to T1 when half or more of the P9 and other keys are locked away?  The player's that have them will win, but how much competition will they find?

[silver.paladin]

Another side of the equation that I do not believe that has been mentioned here, is that the value of these OOPs, especially P9, is all secondary market.   Wizards makes no money on these cards in this secondary market (especially now that they have closed their doors with their small branch of gaming stores).
Why should it not make business sense for WoTC to release a set of cards that include a number of the older much more expensive cards?  People will buy these cards.  The large number of players who can afford these high priced cards will spend a large amount of money on this new set, just so they can obtain some of these high end T1 cards.  Collectors, being collectors, will also of course be buying these cards - some collectors like Hammr7 and Dragsamou will buy enough to have 4 complete sets.

Most likely there will be some people who will get upset and quit, but I think that there will be enough players and collectors out there, who will spend enough money on a set like this, that it will outweigh those 'who quit'.

This all remind me of yet another article I once read long ago in the Wizards Retailer magazine (which may have been about the time of Anthologies, or a follow up to Chronicles), in which Wizards was clearly stating that the collector, or market prices, for individual cards were not a factor in Wizards mind in creating these kind of sets, because of the fact that these prices all come about in a secondary market.  Wizards is the primary market, and they are where the original cards come from, so if they feel they can make money in re-releasing old, higher priced cards, then they would. The secondary market was not there to dictate terms as to how, or what Wizards might do.

[Tenacious_Dyl]

Well... I'm a player, and only collect a few cards. But I was very upset when my underworld dreams deck was copied over and over again by little 10 year olds kids w/ too many 8th edition packs.

Right... when I make a fast, sloppy deck, I don't care what edition cards are from... but when I make a deck that takes a lot of time and money, and invest in older cards (like my four mint legends underworld dreams) and then see them reprinted and sold for 6 dollars... that makes me mad.

I like to play and build decks, but I like to keep that "old magic charm" intact.

[dragsamou]

Sorry, but I have to finally ask -- what is OOPS??  I originally thought it was something to mean error card, as in oops, but of course realized that was not the case, so what exactly is it meaning?

Hi Silver.
OOPS=Out Of Prints  ;)

[fvzappa]

I think a simple solution is to allow (in T1 tourneys) proxies of the expensive cards to be used, like writing "Mox Jet" on a Swamp, & having the real thing there with you. We do this at our local shop.

Why? I own 40+ pieces if power, not to mention everything else people want. I loan it out to friends- strangers from out of town kind of lose out, but those who come are serious gamers. We do this because most can't afford the cards & would not participate if I did not help. The operator of the event understands & it seems to work well. Never had any problems.