please delete.

Everything else about Magic.

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normalbrains
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please delete.

Post by normalbrains » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:03 am

project cancelled, but if anybody wants to get something going, just p.m. me

please delete.
Last edited by normalbrains on Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dragsamou
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Re: New Magic Project

Post by dragsamou » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:09 am

normalbrains wrote:Hey, guys. Its been a while. Do you remember the "Magic Library Community Project"? It was a project we had going a few years back to pool our collective talents and create a tangible magic-related product for ourselves and collectors. In the end, the project was hi-jacked by people that had a different agenda (to collect thousands of dollars for a John Avon-painted logo for this site) and the whole project descended into bickering and chaos, then imploded. Read more about the saga here if interested:

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=2397
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=2429

I currently have a much more focused project planned and I am looking for a few people that might want to join a small team to help make a high quality magic-related rarity. I'm looking for creative people, especially people that have experience printing or designing, people that know about game mechanics, just people that might be passionate about making something cool. Anyone involved will receive bonifide magic rarities. P.M. me your email addy if you'd like to know more details about this project and I'll get in touch shortly.
Hi Allyn.
I would love to know about this Magiclibrarities project :wink:
Want/Have Lists.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8903
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1515
I Love you Dad.R.I.P.

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ende73
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Post by ende73 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:56 am

I'm in too!

Unfortunately I have none of the specific talents you mentioned :-\ , but if I can help in any way I'll gladly do it !

Please e-mail me the details.

hammr7
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Post by hammr7 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:41 pm

As someone who attempted to moderate the prior situation, please take care to avoid the pitfalls of the earlier endeavor.

To be blunt, that earlier attempt was initiated with most laudable goals: as a means to generate funds for the Magic Library website, to help defer the costs (which at the time were being borne almost completely by Ralph) and to avoid the alternative of including obtrusive advertising on the web site. It was also going to be used to support Ralph's grand vision for a much-more-complex MTG site, encompassing every aspect of Magic history and memorabilia.

Based upon that goal, and Ralph's desires to:
1. Not do anything that would risk the wrath of WOTC (Hasbro), since so much of the site's content is legally theirs - and could be pulled by them.
2. include a piece of custom artwork (for a web site "identifier") within the project, and
3. work only with high class and limited edition options, so as to create a true collectible.

I researched costs for everything from cards and tokens to posters and limited edition lithographs. I determined both the fixed and variable costs for virtually every option. I even found relatively unknown, but extremely talented, graphic artists with a love of the fantasy genre who would have produced artwork on consignment (a piece of the proceeds if their work was included). As an alternative I proposed a competition, allowing artists to submit artwork, with the winner getting a prize (and an award for their resume or portfolio). Most of this work was done behind the scenes.

Unfortunately, it was felt by others that the artwork needed to come from a well-known MTG artist in order for the project to proceed. And sadly, commissioning a unique work from an established artist is extremely expensive. There are all sorts of legal entanglements; everything from exclusivity (which even WOTC couldn't afford in the early days of Magic) to payments (how much up front, how much for each type of use, etc.).

I don't think Ralph wanted to impose his will, despite the fact that the project was to be uniquely identified with this website, but this allowed the program to balloon. I know the conflicts and complexity helped cement his decision to leave this site, and Magic in general. The problems and distractions, combined with family issues, helped drive me from my involvement as well. There were too many long phone calls, to much disagreement, and no cost-effective compromise that would have given the project any chance at financial success (the original reason for the whole project).

So as you consider any project, you need to decide:

- What is the goal? (pure profit for a few?, a true collectible?)
- Is the product going to be tied to this site?
- Is it going to be a limited edition undertaking, or one of those where it is endlessly reproduced?
- If you desire a formal product, offered for sale, will efforts be made to assure it doesn't violate the intellectual rights of WOTC? Remember that many informal products noted, and even traded, on this site do not strictly meet this requirement. To infringe upon real or perceived property rights of WOTC will put much of this site's content at risk.

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me-and_we
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Post by me-and_we » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:16 am

considering all this, I am wondering how projects like the shijifukujin did happen after all. I mean, after all this is more like free marketing for wotc, so I think that talking with the right person should at least cover the legal issues. but after all, what do I know about this...

hammr7
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Post by hammr7 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:48 am

me-and_we wrote:considering all this, I am wondering how projects like the shijifukujin did happen after all. I mean, after all this is more like free marketing for wotc, so I think that talking with the right person should at least cover the legal issues. but after all, what do I know about this...
Any card made to work within the normal elements of Magic, or which has a normal card back, technically infringes on game symbols and / or mechanics owned by WOTC. To WOTC, unless an item has specific WOTC approval, it is just another counterfeit. If they let any counterfeit go, it weakens any defense they have against all other counterfeiters. This is why they have shut down all sorts of small endeavors, from Middle Ages stickers to Crazy Clown tokens.

Ralph had discussions with WOTC employees on a somewhat regular basis, and was often warned about possible violations. He took those warnings seriously.

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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:21 am

hammr7 wrote: Ralph had discussions with WOTC employees on a somewhat regular basis, and was often warned about possible violations. He took those warnings seriously.
And was prudent in doing so. There is often a wide gap between what gamers at WotC want to do and what they have to do.
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