Question:
I am just beginning discussions with an International buyer (I am in the US). The buyer is looking at purchasing cards from me. There is a potential for a couple thousand dollar transaction.
While I DO have a PayPal account, I am very ready not to have to pay PayPal all their fees. :-)
So I looking for suggestions for:
- A secure way for the buyer to transfer multi-thousand dollars to me.
- A secure way for me to ship the items back to him. Some way that covers me if something goes wrong during shipping, but that doesn't stick the receiver with the massive import tax he may be facing if I declared full value...
The buyer suggested shipping via UPS as "documents" and payment via moneybookers.com
I haven't dealt with UPS before (I tend to use USPS), and the reviews about moneybookers.com leaves me leary. And, frankly, PayPal scares me - I have a couple hundred dollars a month wandering through my PayPal account each month normally. PayPal has an unpleasant habit of locking down accounts with abnormal money transactions - and a couple thousands dollars moving into my account might just get the money and my account frozen.
HELP MY BUYER AND ME HAVE A NICE AND RELAXED AND SAFE TRANSACTION! :-)
Best regards,
Rainsford
International money transfers and large purchases
Moderators: cataclysm80, hammr7, l0qii, Apocalypse2K, berkumps, dragsamou, mystical_tutor, pp
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hammr7
- Librarities Legend
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- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:29 pm
- Location: Southern New Jersey
Unfortunately, there is no easy solution to everything you want. There are certainly ways for you to get your payment without the level of Paypal fees. Your best bet is to talk to your bank, and find out what kind of electronic transfer services they offer. They can give you the specifics on a number of different options, including fees and how long payments will take to clear. I have done a few large transactions with fees totaling less than $50.
The bank can also alert you to transfers they have had problems with. Obviously most International Cashiers Checks and Money Orders are out because of the numerous scams and long clearing time. But your bank can let you know if there are any such instruments in your buyer's country that are worthwhile to consider.
So you should be able to come up with at least a few ways to get paid at fees lower than Paypal charges.
Sending items and not declaring their true value can only hurt you if something goes wrong. How likely ths is to happen depends upon where things are being shipped. Most credible payment methods will tie the payment to some specific goods or services. Insurance will only cover a declared value. If a package is lost or damaged, the seller needs to refund payment to the buyer, and then deals with the insurance. I used to try and do favors for buyers, but have been burned twice (to the tune of $100s) when something went missing and wasn't fully insured.
I will still send items to friends at low or no value, but for someone you don't know its dicey, because all the risk lands on you. The best alternative s to find someone who is traveling to their part of the world and hand-deliver the items.
Based upon my experiences, I would never ship at less than full value to Africa or South America, Italy, Malaysia, or South Korea. And I wouldn't ship anywhere that doesn't provide tracking and signature confirmation. And based upon recent experiences, I would not allow payment to be made via credit card if Paypal was used unless you are a power seller. Chargebacks initiated months after a Paypal purchase are the new scam in more than a few countries, and the buyer always wins. This isn't Paypal's fault, but their security requirements do present an additional roadblock if you get scammed.
The bank can also alert you to transfers they have had problems with. Obviously most International Cashiers Checks and Money Orders are out because of the numerous scams and long clearing time. But your bank can let you know if there are any such instruments in your buyer's country that are worthwhile to consider.
So you should be able to come up with at least a few ways to get paid at fees lower than Paypal charges.
Sending items and not declaring their true value can only hurt you if something goes wrong. How likely ths is to happen depends upon where things are being shipped. Most credible payment methods will tie the payment to some specific goods or services. Insurance will only cover a declared value. If a package is lost or damaged, the seller needs to refund payment to the buyer, and then deals with the insurance. I used to try and do favors for buyers, but have been burned twice (to the tune of $100s) when something went missing and wasn't fully insured.
I will still send items to friends at low or no value, but for someone you don't know its dicey, because all the risk lands on you. The best alternative s to find someone who is traveling to their part of the world and hand-deliver the items.
Based upon my experiences, I would never ship at less than full value to Africa or South America, Italy, Malaysia, or South Korea. And I wouldn't ship anywhere that doesn't provide tracking and signature confirmation. And based upon recent experiences, I would not allow payment to be made via credit card if Paypal was used unless you are a power seller. Chargebacks initiated months after a Paypal purchase are the new scam in more than a few countries, and the buyer always wins. This isn't Paypal's fault, but their security requirements do present an additional roadblock if you get scammed.
Well, yer damn if you do, damned if you don't....
From a security standpoint, paypal is probably the safest way to send or recieve money......a wire transfer is a done deal when done.....so is western union or money gram.....so is a check....from your stand point, those are all the best, as the buyer has little recourse beyond a civil lawsuit....
As for shipping the cards.....if you don't declare the value, USPS, UPS, or Fedex won't insure it for anything more.....and even if you get a dumb clerk who lets you do it, if something goes wrong, they will use the declared value as an excuse not to pay the insured value....
So, long in the short of it.....if you want to make sure you get your money.....get it wired.....and send it insured with the declared value.......if he has to pay taxes, not your problem.....
And this is why, when I used to sell cards.........I stopped selling to overseas buyers. I had one guy try to claim the package was empty that I sent him........and the only reason he stopped harassing me, was a guy in france who read his post on the old usenet threads, saw him playing at a tournament with the mox pearl signed in gold by frazier and garfield, with a smiley face.....the dude took a picture of it......and posted it.......and suddenly the purschaser never said a word in the thread again.......as people went ape on him for being a fraud....
Later EddieO
From a security standpoint, paypal is probably the safest way to send or recieve money......a wire transfer is a done deal when done.....so is western union or money gram.....so is a check....from your stand point, those are all the best, as the buyer has little recourse beyond a civil lawsuit....
As for shipping the cards.....if you don't declare the value, USPS, UPS, or Fedex won't insure it for anything more.....and even if you get a dumb clerk who lets you do it, if something goes wrong, they will use the declared value as an excuse not to pay the insured value....
So, long in the short of it.....if you want to make sure you get your money.....get it wired.....and send it insured with the declared value.......if he has to pay taxes, not your problem.....
And this is why, when I used to sell cards.........I stopped selling to overseas buyers. I had one guy try to claim the package was empty that I sent him........and the only reason he stopped harassing me, was a guy in france who read his post on the old usenet threads, saw him playing at a tournament with the mox pearl signed in gold by frazier and garfield, with a smiley face.....the dude took a picture of it......and posted it.......and suddenly the purschaser never said a word in the thread again.......as people went ape on him for being a fraud....
Later EddieO
To minimize credit risk why not just break up the transaction into several smaller ones with the buyer sending the money first and you sending the goods afterwards. It'll take more time but this way no one will get the royal shaft.
In terms of paypal fees, why not just ask the person to send funds non-cc?
In terms of paypal fees, why not just ask the person to send funds non-cc?
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l0qii
- Legendary Unfindable Title Moderator
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Wire transfer is still the norm for large transactions in much of the world. I've done a few, I've also received Western Union moneygrams successfully from lesser developed parts of the world. Never had a problem with either.
For sending, USPS registered mail has always covered me just fine. Including once when Italy "lost" my registered letter. The buyer in that case, who paid through PayPal, filed a dispute and lost. PayPal sided with me solely because I provided a valid registered tracking number.
If you are worried about insurance, you can't insure something and them claim no value. It just can't be done. As long as you declare a value, the customs agents in the receiving country can impose import tax, even if you mark it as gift. In my experience, this is at their personal discretion and there aren't really any fixed rules about what does and doesn't get taxed. USPS, UPS, DHL, etc all have to go through customs, so it makes no difference which delivery system you use.
For sending, USPS registered mail has always covered me just fine. Including once when Italy "lost" my registered letter. The buyer in that case, who paid through PayPal, filed a dispute and lost. PayPal sided with me solely because I provided a valid registered tracking number.
If you are worried about insurance, you can't insure something and them claim no value. It just can't be done. As long as you declare a value, the customs agents in the receiving country can impose import tax, even if you mark it as gift. In my experience, this is at their personal discretion and there aren't really any fixed rules about what does and doesn't get taxed. USPS, UPS, DHL, etc all have to go through customs, so it makes no difference which delivery system you use.
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magic-belgium
- Librarities Legend
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moneybookers is quite safe for the seller as this is a bank transfer.
The buyer sends the money with a local bank transfer to moneybookers, and then moneybookers sends to the seller locally too. Just like Paypal funds. This is why moneybookers is cheaper.
Moneybookers is safer for the seller, and in this case unsafe for the buyer. That's why I use myself moneybookers with friends (like Mark here or another seller in China).
For instance I sent moneybookers money to Starcitygames for the 70 000 foreign cards transaction. Because I trusted them. And they had no problems with this.
UPS is by far the safest (with Fed Ex) way to ship stuff. Especially if you choose the most expensive options, like overnight (2 days).
The buyer sends the money with a local bank transfer to moneybookers, and then moneybookers sends to the seller locally too. Just like Paypal funds. This is why moneybookers is cheaper.
Moneybookers is safer for the seller, and in this case unsafe for the buyer. That's why I use myself moneybookers with friends (like Mark here or another seller in China).
For instance I sent moneybookers money to Starcitygames for the 70 000 foreign cards transaction. Because I trusted them. And they had no problems with this.
UPS is by far the safest (with Fed Ex) way to ship stuff. Especially if you choose the most expensive options, like overnight (2 days).
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