Signed or not?

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Alphafoil
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Signed or not?

Post by Alphafoil » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:31 pm

Do you think it's better to invest in signed cards (by the artist, well signed, and not altered) or in unsigned ones?

I have heard many different opinions, and I'd like to know what do you think about it.

On the one hand, signed cards have the added value of being signed by the artist (that value is subjective). But on the other hand, a signed card is no longer Mint. As long as the artist is alive and is willing to sign cards, an unsigned card can get signed, but the opposite is impossible (as far as I know).

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CHaPuZaS
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Post by CHaPuZaS » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:42 pm

As much as I love the exclusiveness , I love the cards to be as mint and as non-signed as possible.

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Alifromcairo
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Post by Alifromcairo » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:23 pm

To be honest, when I look at Markers's collection, I find it truly beautiful. But on a personal note, I have always collected unsigned card, I like them unaltered, in their original condition. Maybe some kind of neurosis ? :-D

Since signing a card is an irreversible act, I must say that an unsigned one will be always more valuable than a signed one to my eyes, except in some case, if the artist has passed away.
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Alphafoil
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Post by Alphafoil » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:29 pm

Alifromcairo wrote:To be honest, when I look at Markers's collection, I find it truly beautiful. But on a personal note, I have always collected unsigned card, I like them unaltered, in their original condition. Maybe some kind of neurosis ? :-D

Since signing a card is an irreversible act, I must say that an unsigned one will be always more valuable than a signed one to my eyes, except in some case, if the artist has passed away.
So while you can't "unsign" a card, you also only can get it signed while the artist is alive and willing to sign cards. That's why I posted precisely the Vesuvan Doppelganger. If signed cards really become more valuable once the artist stops signing, then it may be a good idea to get signed cards while it's possible.

I'm personally not sure about this issue. I find pimp decks "pimper" if cards are signed (and I find condition less important in that case), while for collector's cards I prefer to have them in the best possible condition.

markers
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Post by markers » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:14 pm

Interesting topic :wink:

I don't think I have to tell you what my preference is.

For me signed cards is about personalization make something special with your cards.

How many cards like for example "Artifact Evolution" exist? Billions and none (nearly none) are being played but a artist signed Artifact Evolution is something I treasure and actually look for because the signature of the artist is hard to get and (IMHO) it looks better in the binder.

As a hobby (signed card collecting) is not so much about spending a LOT of money (having deeper pockets surely helps) but to find out how to get your cards signed.
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vegas10
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Post by vegas10 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:06 am

I would side with unsigned just because there is a far wider range of people who will be an unsigned cards vs a signed card. Also most people who like signed cards could just buy your unsigned one and go get it signed as long as the artist is still available to do so. That being said I have my share of signed cards as well.

GlobalBoosterHunter
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Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:44 am

I have never really thought about it until recently.

I can see that a baseball card signed by the player might be worth more than an unsigned one.

Over in New Zealand the $5 note has Sir Edmund Hillary, the first man to climb Mount Everest, pictured on it.

He still lives in NZ and apparently gets asked to sign quite a few when he is down the pub.

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That would be an interesting note to own as the signature belongs to the person depicted.

But a picture of a Jace should be signed by Jace!

I can see that a signature raises a piece of mass-produced art above the level of the other identical pieces and serves as a sort of link between the artist and the copy of their work.

I can also see that the thrill of hunting down difficult to find artists would add a new element to collecting.

I passed on an Alpha booster for 699 Euro because it had Richard Garfield's signature and his drawing of a dragon on it. I am kicking myself for not getting it at that price but the booster was in a real mess, not even the signature could redeem it!

I wouldn't mind a booster with the WotC team on them but you certainly wouldn't want the full set done, after 2500+ boosters their arms would fall off.

I think just a Revised Booster (when MtG started for me) with the creative team signatures would suffice but the logistics behind that would give you a headache and it probably wouldn't mean anything to anyone else.

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Post by NeRo » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:20 pm

Alphafoil wrote:So while you can't "unsign" a card, you also only can get it signed while the artist is alive and willing to sign cards. That's why I posted precisely the Vesuvan Doppelganger. If signed cards really become more valuable once the artist stops signing, then it may be a good idea to get signed cards while it's possible.
That seems like a trap. Sure, it is better to get cards signed or buy signed cards while the artist is signing (if you intend to get them eventually) but to automatically assume that they become as valuable as the Hoover cards (or taking the Hoover signed cards as a measurement for price development) is not good. Hoovers and Chaffees signatures are much rarer than lets say Alexanders or Tedins which lets me doubt those will carry the same premium once those two stop signing for whatever reason.

On a personal note. I owned a quite a bit of signed and altered stuff and started to sell it all at some point because the whole scene developed badly. A lot of signatures like Leach or O'Connor got increbibly inflated in value by people getting those (former "rare") artists to sign again which lead to a state where it was quite generally solely about money and not availability (strictly talking playables here). When I started especially altered stuff carried a bit of a stigma (outside of italy and spain) and you felt like owning something special - then everything became rather generic.

Obviously unsigned stuff seems much more solid in terms of investment to me.
GlobalBoosterHunter wrote:He still lives in NZ and apparently gets asked to sign quite a few when he is down the pub.
He died nearly 7 years ago. Maybe his ghost haunts the pub ...
GlobalBoosterHunter wrote:a picture of a Jace should be signed by Jace!
Meddling Mage, Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage and so on get quite frequently signed by the people they portray. :-P

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Post by cataclysm80 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:48 pm

Alphafoil wrote: As long as the artist is alive and is willing to sign cards, an unsigned card can get signed, but the opposite is impossible (as far as I know).
When you say that the opposite is impossible, do you mean that it is impossible for artists who are not alive to sign cards?
If that is the case, please read the eye opening quote below.
NeRo wrote:
GlobalBoosterHunter wrote:He still lives in NZ and apparently gets asked to sign quite a few when he is down the pub.
He died nearly 7 years ago. Maybe his ghost haunts the pub ...
Wow!


On the other hand, if you were talking about turning a signed card into an unsigned card, I have heard from several people that it is possible but time consuming. They have done it with power 9 & dual lands mainly. I'm not overly familiar with the process, but it seems to involve placing a small piece of cloth damp with water over the signature (or scribble / alter).
There is a clear coat over the printed cards before they are cut, so after they are cut the edges are not protected. Keep water away from card edges! The signature is on top of the clear. the clear is not water soluble, but the signature can be lightened and eventually removed through repeating the process. The longer the signature has been on the card, the harder it is to remove. Also, worn areas (inked edges) are more difficult due to worn / missing clearcoat, as the ink soaks into the card stock fibers.
I have not tried this myself, just heard others talk, so I may be missing something. Ask around and find someone with experience before trying this on anything expensive.

Tav

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berkumps
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Post by berkumps » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:56 pm

I wonder how best to remove signatures from PSA/BGS cases?

GlobalBoosterHunter
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Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:53 am

NeRo wrote:
GlobalBoosterHunter wrote:He still lives in NZ and apparently gets asked to sign quite a few when he is down the pub.
He died nearly 7 years ago. Maybe his ghost haunts the pub ...
Thanks for the correction.

I knew I should have got one earlier! They are $700 now!

Actually that could be right, I wrote an article on it some time ago for our coin club newsletter, sometime around 2005-06 probably. Doesn't time fly? Seems only recently I was opening my first booster of Revised...

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Post by OGB » Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:41 pm

GlobalBoosterHunter wrote:I have never really thought about it until recently.

I can see that a baseball card signed by the player might be worth more than an unsigned one.

Over in New Zealand the $5 note has Sir Edmund Hillary, the first man to climb Mount Everest, pictured on it.

He still lives in NZ and apparently gets asked to sign quite a few when he is down the pub.

Image

That would be an interesting note to own as the signature belongs to the person depicted.

But a picture of a Jace should be signed by Jace!

I can see that a signature raises a piece of mass-produced art above the level of the other identical pieces and serves as a sort of link between the artist and the copy of their work.

I can also see that the thrill of hunting down difficult to find artists would add a new element to collecting.

I passed on an Alpha booster for 699 Euro because it had Richard Garfield's signature and his drawing of a dragon on it. I am kicking myself for not getting it at that price but the booster was in a real mess, not even the signature could redeem it!

I wouldn't mind a booster with the WotC team on them but you certainly wouldn't want the full set done, after 2500+ boosters their arms would fall off.

I think just a Revised Booster (when MtG started for me) with the creative team signatures would suffice but the logistics behind that would give you a headache and it probably wouldn't mean anything to anyone else.
I wonder if anyone has a double signed NZ note with Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay...

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