Dragon collection

Personal offers and search inquiries about regularly purchasable standard Magic products.

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manaman22
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Post by manaman22 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:03 am

hunterjwizard wrote:Is the "Alpha cut" anything like Summer Magic?

I've really got 2 objectives here: one is to assemble a master list of all dragon cards ever that can be used by other collectors. The other, of course, is to collect all of them myself.

Concerning the second objective, I am trying to keep out the stupifyingly-rare-yet-not-very-different cards(like Summer Magic), simply because I haven't really got hundreds of dollars to drop on a single card and I feel I'd suffer heaping buyer's remorse for a "slightly different" card.

Of course I suppose by those criteria I should at include things like Summer Magic anyway at least on the master list. But the question remains: is there even such a card? I guess we have confirmed the existence of an Alpha cut Dragon Whelp, so that's one step.
Not really. Alpha Cut 4th is just a batch of regular 4th edition cards that had their corners cut with the same radius as was used for Alpha. They should be considered a production error instead of an unreleased set like Summer. The only card you have to worry about is Dragon Whelp since Alpha Cut 4th only consists of the commons and uncommons from the set.

Alternate 4th has more in common with Summer then Alpha Cut 4th. As Gary talked about earlier, it was an attempt to produce cards domestically with US Playing Cards. The deal didn't work out and the run was supposed to be destroyed and never formally released. However, some amount made it into circulation.

From a completion standpoint, I would include Summer, Alternate 4th, and Alpha Cut 4th in the master list. It's only 5 more cards to worry about. From there you can decide what you do and don't want to personally collect.

hunterjwizard
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Post by hunterjwizard » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:07 am

Were there actually any Shivan Dragons confirmed in Summer Magic? It seems like only a few tens of thousands of cards even exist(I heard there were only something like 6 of the mis-printed Temperest Efreet)

Other important question: are these cards tournament-legal? There's a reason I haven't included Collectors Edition or World Champion decks.

All right so that adds:

Shivan Dragon - Summer Magic
Dragon Whelp - Summer Magic
Shivan Dragon - Alternate 4th
Dragon Whelp - Alternate 4th
Dragon Whelp - Alpha-Cut 4th

Actually 3 out of those 5 are fairly easy to come by, in fact the Alternate 4th shivan costs less than a moderate-play beta shivan, and whelps are never expensive. Summer Magic, on the other hand...

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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:32 am

hunterjwizard wrote:Is the "Alpha cut" anything like Summer Magic?

I've really got 2 objectives here: one is to assemble a master list of all dragon cards ever that can be used by other collectors. The other, of course, is to collect all of them myself.

Concerning the second objective, I am trying to keep out the stupifyingly-rare-yet-not-very-different cards(like Summer Magic), simply because I haven't really got hundreds of dollars to drop on a single card and I feel I'd suffer heaping buyer's remorse for a "slightly different" card.

Of course I suppose by those criteria I should at include things like Summer Magic anyway at least on the master list. But the question remains: is there even such a card? I guess we have confirmed the existence of an Alpha cut Dragon Whelp, so that's one step.
Not really. This is kind of an apple/oranges thing. I have no idea how the "alpha cut" happened or why--or if it even happened at the printer. Someone with more historical background will need to address that.
In any case though, it was not a published set as in the case of Alt 4th or Summer Magic. They were both attempts by the company to print more cards of a set that was already in production, or at least supplement what was available. I consider Alt 4th a regular publication--all be it with a problem. I have never collected Summer because the company officially trashed them and did not want them in circulation as they felt the set did not properly represent the publishing standards they stood for. They were ordered destroyed and, depending on how you look at it, they could be considered stolen property.
My suggestion is to include them in your list (that would be all dragons in the regular sets, 4th and revised). It will be your choice if you ever fill the slots.
This might help:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/MTG-Summer-Magi ... 299/g.html

I may have an extra Shivan from USA 4th....

Happy hunting

Gary
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Tha_Gunslinga
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Post by Tha_Gunslinga » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:22 pm

hunterjwizard wrote:Were there actually any Shivan Dragons confirmed in Summer Magic?
Do a Google Image Search for "Summer Shivan Dragon." There are dozens.

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dragsamou
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Post by dragsamou » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:25 pm

Tha_Gunslinga wrote:
hunterjwizard wrote:Were there actually any Shivan Dragons confirmed in Summer Magic?
Do a Google Image Search for "Summer Shivan Dragon." There are dozens.
Why Google?

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/731-rar ... cards.html
Want/Have Lists.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8903
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1515
I Love you Dad.R.I.P.

manaman22
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Post by manaman22 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:57 pm

hunterjwizard wrote:Were there actually any Shivan Dragons confirmed in Summer Magic? It seems like only a few tens of thousands of cards even exist(I heard there were only something like 6 of the mis-printed Temperest Efreet)

Other important question: are these cards tournament-legal? There's a reason I haven't included Collectors Edition or World Champion decks.

All right so that adds:

Shivan Dragon - Summer Magic
Dragon Whelp - Summer Magic
Shivan Dragon - Alternate 4th
Dragon Whelp - Alternate 4th
Dragon Whelp - Alpha-Cut 4th

Actually 3 out of those 5 are fairly easy to come by, in fact the Alternate 4th shivan costs less than a moderate-play beta shivan, and whelps are never expensive. Summer Magic, on the other hand...
These cards are all "sleeve playable", meaning that they can go in any deck where the cards are legal as long as they are in sleeves. This obfuscates any identifying marks, like the different back on Alternate 4th or the different corners for Alpha Cut 4th. The World Championship and Collector's Edition cards are not playable (tournament wise) due to the gold borders and different backs.

From a collectability standpoint, including World Championship and Collector's Edition is a good idea. You only have to worry about 4 cards from Collector's Edition; Shivan and Whelp from Collector's Ed. and International Ed. I'm not sure how many dragons made it into the various WC Decks, but it can't be that many, though depending on how granular you want to get, you may have to worry about duplication because of different signatures on them. I had this problem with my Mishra's Factory set. There are 6 of them from the '96 WC decks because they were used by 6 different players.

hunterjwizard
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Post by hunterjwizard » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:32 pm

http://www.abugames.com/card185519-3069 ... vid=306997

$5,000

I don't want a summer magic Shivan anymore.

I'm gonna go ahead and side with mystical_tutor on the whole legality thing, haha. If for no other reason than I don't want to have to lie awake at night knowing I will never finish my collection.

I'm going to move the "sleeve playable" cards into a sort of special side-list. I think the spirit of this project is to collect all of the cards that were actually intended to be sold to the general public and played with.

Same goes for collectors edition/world champion, if its not tournament legal I don't care about it.

matts46570
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Post by matts46570 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:55 pm

Actually, ABU prices for Summer are not that accurate since a lot of the cards are not even in stock. I would even say the Shivan is probably priced higher than this nowadays.
Last edited by matts46570 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hunterjwizard
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Post by hunterjwizard » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:38 pm

That particular Shivan isn't even in stock, page is just still up apparently. They have really good prices on some other things, though. I wish I'd found them a week ago, actually. But they do carry a few of the otherwise tough-to-find cards.

cataclysm80
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Post by cataclysm80 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:51 am

Rivals Quick Start & Introductory Two Players Sets don't seem to contain any dragons, so no worries there.

Tav

hunterjwizard
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Post by hunterjwizard » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:40 pm

That's helpful, thanks!

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Magic61983
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Post by Magic61983 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:33 pm

hunterjwizard wrote:That particular Shivan isn't even in stock, page is just still up apparently. They have really good prices on some other things, though. I wish I'd found them a week ago, actually. But they do carry a few of the otherwise tough-to-find cards.
These cards sold back in 2009 at those prices so you'd be hard pressed to find those cards at those prices these days. Those prices are pre Summer boom. You're probably looking at $7500 or so for a NM Shivan these days and who knows for a Whelp after seeing what the Hologram went for.
BGS 9+ Alpha set 282/295 (97.29%) Avg 9.41
BGS 9.5+ Beta set 283/302 (93.71%) Avg 9.58
BGS 9.5+ Arabian set 35/92 (38.04%) Avg 9.62
BGS 9.5+ Antiquities set 82/100 (82%) Avg 9.64
BGS 9.5+ Legends set 279/310 (90.00%) Avg 9.61

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