Unlimited, Summer, 4th Edition and French/German Test Prints

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snarke
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Post by snarke » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:58 pm

ouallada wrote:Test prints are for aesthetic reasons, to see how text looks in borders, to see how redesigned textboxes or frames look like. That's why the textless and test printing ones do away with text -- they're purely aesthetic. The french/german ones simply need to test for how text actually looks like in the box/artist credit space/copyright etc. They don't need to be accurate in terms of text.
I cannot imagine ever doing a press proof to see 'how text actually looks in the ... space." Running the printing press, even for one card, costs many thousands of dollars. (Running it for anything less than 10,000 cards will be pretty much the same cost as 1, and even 100,000 would barely make a noticeable difference in the final bill.) The only reason it would ever be done is to check something that cannot be checked in any other way, and the only thing which fits that description is "the color balance." Is it too light/dark/greenish/blueish/what-have-you.

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Post by dragsamou » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:00 pm

snarke wrote:
ouallada wrote:Test prints are for aesthetic reasons, to see how text looks in borders, to see how redesigned textboxes or frames look like. That's why the textless and test printing ones do away with text -- they're purely aesthetic. The french/german ones simply need to test for how text actually looks like in the box/artist credit space/copyright etc. They don't need to be accurate in terms of text.
I cannot imagine ever doing a press proof to see 'how text actually looks in the ... space." Running the printing press, even for one card, costs many thousands of dollars. (Running it for anything less than 10,000 cards will be pretty much the same cost as 1, and even 100,000 would barely make a noticeable difference in the final bill.) The only reason it would ever be done is to check something that cannot be checked in any other way, and the only thing which fits that description is "the color balance." Is it too light/dark/greenish/blueish/what-have-you.
Dave, how you explain all these :-D
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Post by ouallada » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:34 pm

snarke wrote:
ouallada wrote:Test prints are for aesthetic reasons, to see how text looks in borders, to see how redesigned textboxes or frames look like. That's why the textless and test printing ones do away with text -- they're purely aesthetic. The french/german ones simply need to test for how text actually looks like in the box/artist credit space/copyright etc. They don't need to be accurate in terms of text.
I cannot imagine ever doing a press proof to see 'how text actually looks in the ... space." Running the printing press, even for one card, costs many thousands of dollars. (Running it for anything less than 10,000 cards will be pretty much the same cost as 1, and even 100,000 would barely make a noticeable difference in the final bill.) The only reason it would ever be done is to check something that cannot be checked in any other way, and the only thing which fits that description is "the color balance." Is it too light/dark/greenish/blueish/what-have-you.
Every single test print except the textless ones in this thread has text. I think it's a safe assumption to say that the text is there for a reason. I mean, regardless of what the actual reason is for text being part of test prints, be it colour balance/fitting/spacing/etc, text is present for almost all test prints, as I'd reckon is important when part of the test prints then were for a set that corrected contrast issues from summer to 4th.

Thanks for your input, though. Every bit counts =D>

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Post by Neuron » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:41 pm

I think I would place them as being printed AFTER German black border, DURING the French black border printing (due to copyright line), as test prints FOR the foreign white border cards that were about to be printed.
That also was my thought. Just wondering: Why do you place German Limited before French? Can you see differences in the copyright line between both?

Facts that vote for French > German:

- French wb designed 1994 (indicates: BB First released - first sold out, even in 1994)
- German Islands with French copyright text

There are more indirect signs that the German translator had French cards to work from, at least with German Unlimited: Stone Rain is worded: "Zerstört ein Gelände" instead of "Zerstört ein Land." What does "Gelände" mean in English? - Terrain... strange enough. But what "land" is used to be translated into French? - Right, also terrain. He looked for the French word in an English dictionary ](*,).
The copyright line on the test print looks more bold than on other French cards. It reminds me of the Italian white border Revised cards with bold copyright lines.
Reminds me on that, too. Yet unsure what we could deduce from it.

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Post by Neuron » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:35 am

dragsamou wrote:
cataclysm80 wrote:
Neuron wrote: I think we should persuade a collector who has both sets to scan them.

If we had them in highres here in the library, a lot of things would become easier.

I second this motion!

Tav
To my knowledge, I know only 2 Collectors that have them, but it's a real possibility that those sets were sold as both stopped collecting MTG years ago.
Maybe a third one, I need to verify, and I believe that some "Old"German Members eventually possess one.
Hi dragsamou,

I know one with only missing 5 cards or so who told me he has pulled almost everything himself. He said he had no time. Maybe we could offer him something to do it?

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Post by cataclysm80 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:23 pm

Neuron wrote: Just wondering: Why do you place German Limited before French? Can you see differences in the copyright line between both?

Facts that vote for French > German:

- French wb designed 1994 (indicates: BB First released - first sold out, even in 1994)
- German Islands with French copyright text

There are more indirect signs that the German translator had French cards to work from, at least with German Unlimited: Stone Rain is worded: "Zerstört ein Gelände" instead of "Zerstört ein Land." What does "Gelände" mean in English? - Terrain... strange enough. But what "land" is used to be translated into French? - Right, also terrain. He looked for the French word in an English dictionary ](*,).
Probably best to discuss the order of that list in the other thread http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=9059
I'll answer that question there and try to post more info there soon.

Tav

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Post by Magic61983 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:39 pm

I will get scans of the backs of the textless cards once I have some time. Sorry it's been really hectic around here lately.
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dragsamou
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Post by dragsamou » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:32 am

Hi Members

Unlimited Double Back Front and Back Test Print

ImageImage


Textless Unlimited Forest Test Print Front and Back

ImageImage


Textless Summer Colors Paralyze Test Print Front and Back

ImageImage

Textless Unlimited and Summer Colors Test Prints have in common:
*Both of them have a lighter Back, all the others Test Prints after the Summer Colors ones doesn't have that lighter Back.
Textless Summer Colors Paralyze Test Print Front and Back. The colors of the Paralyze Test Print are matching perfectly the colors of the Paralyze Summer Edition Card. All the Paralyze Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Revised have a real different color. So, the probability that Summer Test Prints exist is extremely high.
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Post by cataclysm80 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:27 am

cataclysm80 wrote:
dragsamou wrote:
cataclysm80 wrote: Looking at my Waldfeen test print today, I notice that it is slightly taller than a regular card. Maybe half milimeter difference. Anyone else notice this with theirs?
Tav
Hi Tav

I believe yours is the Amy Weber one, correct ? It's on Normal MTG Card stock ? Can you please post HD Scans, I will do the same with the 2 I own, that are "Test Prints" not finished, ready to be sent, as the 50 ones of Amy Weber.

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... sa+pegasus
ende73 wrote:I am confused.

I own one (got it from Amy Weber) and it's exactly the normal MTG carstock (passes the bend test by the way), with a perfect MTG back and the dot pattern looks like normal older white cards too (I have the Mesa Pegasus picture).

Just the colors are a bit brighter and of course the font is different. picture's wrong etc.

In other words, mine at least looks exactly like a WOTC produced test print.
I'm not sure of the origin of my Waldfeen/Mesa Pegasus. I spoke with Amy Weber about getting one, but she was in the process of relocating her art studio and could not help. The one I have came from Gunslinga. Hard to say how many hands it has passed through or where it originated. The card stock is definately not normal though, It feels thinner. I don't have a tool to measure that at the moment, so it may not actually BE thinner, but it is definately more flexible and not as stiff as a normal Magic card. The surface is noticeably more glossy than normal. Under magnification, the usual dot pattern is present.

Here is a scan of the back as you requested.

Image

Tav
UPDATE:

I found my tool that measures card thickness.

Here are the measurements for a regular German Unlimited Waldfeen (typical of all Magic cards size).

3.465 inches tall ( 88.011 mm)
2.484 inches wide ( 63.0936 mm)
0.012 inches thick (.3048 mm)

Here are the measurements for my test print Waldfeen
3.483 inches tall (88.4682 mm) barely noticeable difference
2.487 inches wide (63.1698 mm) imperceptable difference
0.012 inches thick (.3048 mm) same

though the thickness is the same, it does feel like the test print bends a little easier. Maybe it's just my imagination?

I also have a test print Unholy Strenth/Blue Elemental Blast and a test print Grizzly Bears/Samite Healer with white border back.

test print Unholy Strength
3.484 inches tall (88.4936 mm)
2.489 inches wide (63.2206 mm)
0.012 inches thick (.3048 mm)

test print Grizzly Bears
3.486 inches tall (88.5444 mm)
2.501 inches wide (63.5254 mm)
0.012 inches thick (.3048 mm)


Just for comparison, some more regular cards...

German Unlimited Samite Healer
3.469 inches tall (88.1126 mm)
2.486 inches wide (63.1444 mm)
0.012 inches thick (.3048 mm)

English Revised Samite Healer
3.463 inches tall (87.9602 mm)
2.486 inches wide (63.1444 mm)
0.012 inches thick (.3048 mm)

Summer (Edgar) Samite Healer
3.460 inches tall (87.884 mm)
2.482 inces wide (63.0428 mm)
0.012 inches thick (.3048 mm)

Conclusion: thickness is always the same, width is practically the same, German/French testprints are approximately .02 inches (.508 mm) taller than regular cards.

Tav

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Post by Tha_Gunslinga » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:38 am

Just for the record, my Waldfeens came directly from Amy when she was eBaying them years ago.

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Post by cataclysm80 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:14 pm

Thanks, that's good to know!

Tav

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Post by cataclysm80 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:22 am

I have the textless Samite Healer together with the other cards now.

The textless Samite Healer measures
3.467 inches tall (88.0618 mm)
2.466 inches wide (62.6364 mm)
0.012 inches thick (.3048 mm)

The textless Samite Healer is basically the same height as a regular card, which is not the same height as the German/French test prints.

The textless Samite Healer is approximately .02 inches (.508 mm) narrower than regular cards. I suspect all these textless cards would measure .02 narrower than regular, similar to how the German/French testprints are all .02 taller, but I only have the one card to check myself.

thickness is still the same.

Conclusion: Test prints are probably cut with a different machine than regular cards. Also, The German/French test prints were probably made at a different time than the textless test prints.

I'll try to post some scans of all the cards together when I get a chance.

Tav

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Post by cataclysm80 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:11 am

Image

cards are in same locations for the picture of the backs

Image

Tav
Last edited by cataclysm80 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by dragsamou » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:15 pm

Hi Tav

Very impressive. It will have been good to add also a Samite Healer Revised and Unlimited. The back of the Textless Test Print is so different from the others, and the only one is close to, is the German/French one except for the White Border of course.
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Post by cataclysm80 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:17 am

Thanks Alexis, The original image I posted did have Revised, but not Unlimited. I've updated the photo. It now shows

Unlimited
Summer, Textless, 4th
German Test, Revised

Tav

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