Help on rarities and AP's and other stuff

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casperjjj
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Help on rarities and AP's and other stuff

Post by casperjjj » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:26 am

Hi again all

I'm doing a Global Forest Collection and - like in previous posts - I have a couple of questions and inquiries.
Thanks for all your patience and the help that you guys provide :-D

I'll sort it into to groups: 1) Irregular Forests and 2) Regular Forests.

2) Irregular Forests
I have a couple of questions which I hope some of you can shed some light on. I'll just fire away;
- Are there Artist Proof Cards for all sets and all languages? Or only English? Or how does it work?
- What would you guess a general / "fair" price for AP Forest's would be? Of course older versions will be more expensive - I just have no idea of the ballpark.
- Where do you find / purchase AP cards? You guys find them elsewhere then here? How do you do it?
- Alpha, Beta and Gamma Playtest cards; how many of these exist? Very rare? Very expensive?
- I've seen images here in this site of "ALTERNATE FRAME 8TH EDITION WITH UNGLUED / JUDGMENT SYMBOL TEST PRINTS"; How is the rarity of these? Possible to obtain them? I have no idea of where to look for them and I have no idea what one of these Forest's should cost. Ballparl anyone?
- Are there any Albino Forest's anyone know of? Revised albino cards exist, right? Ballpark here?
- Where can I find these Forest's: "FIFTH EDITION TRADITIONAL CHINESE WITH TIGERS & BLACK PANTHERS & LIONS BACK"??
- I've seen images of textless Forest's ("TEXTLESS "SUMMER COLOR" TEST PRINTS") and cards with this wording "Test Printing": Again, where can these be obtained? And at which prices?

I'd love to make a spreadsheet over all the different irregular Forest's that are available to collect - I just dont now where to begin :-p
Hope you guys can help!

2) Regular Forests
I'm slowly but steadily going places; I've currently collected at 71% of all regular Forests, and I'm adding some every week (although not at a rapid pace anymore :-D ).
I'd really love to have a couple of contacts who could help me obtain some cards from their respective countries. So if any of you feel like helping at some point of time I'd really, really appreciate it!
I especially need to find some cool and helpfull guys from: Korea, Russia and Italy (yeah, for some reason I can only find MKM users with very few of my italian wants - so it's either 50 different buys and shipping fees or finding one or two cool guys from Italy who can help me out). Oh yeah, and of course also a guy who can help me out with T-Chinese Forests (I'm way behind there).

All the best,
Casper (Denmark)
Last edited by casperjjj on Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm always on the lookout for cards for my Global Library of Leng Playset Collection:

Any help getting my wants is greatly appreciated!

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mmgun
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Re: Where to acquire T-Chinese cards?

Post by mmgun » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:13 pm

I think you did not try hard enough.

e.g. there is a t-chinese 5th starter on magiccardmarket.

Sometimes you have to offer some bounties to find especially older cards, since nobody likes to spend time for 1 cent cards, since its not worth the effort.

Try to contact our Asian members ( bugking326,Anselan, Apocalypse2K )
Another good way is to go on Facebook, join the chinese and foreign mtg collector groups, there is much help arround.

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casperjjj
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Re: Where to acquire T-Chinese cards?

Post by casperjjj » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:32 pm

Thanks for your reply, mmgun :-)

Well.... I've made many loooong want lists in MKM, and I can see that only 9 of the 175 T-Chinese cards I'm missing are available.. From 8 different MKM-members.. And I've tried contacting some of these members, and the ones that did reply had no more T-Chinese cards..

And I have yet to see any of the cards I'm missing listed for 1 cent. The majority of the Basic Forests that were cheap I scooped up very early.. All the approx 200 russian, 125 korean, 500 chinese, 400 Japanese, 1.400 foils and so on included in my Global collection don't go for that kind of cents unfortunately.

I will definetely try to contact the three members you've kindly mentioned in your post, and see if they can help out.
And I'll also see if there's some help to find on FB.

I've had luck finding vendors from Japan and China that had some of my wants. Also one from Russian, who I'm avaiting.
No luck finding vendors that specialize in T-Chinese or Korean.

Thanks for your help :-)
I'm always on the lookout for cards for my Global Library of Leng Playset Collection:

Any help getting my wants is greatly appreciated!

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mmgun
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Re: Where to acquire T-Chinese cards?

Post by mmgun » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:52 am

user Alien_Starfighter_Pilot recently opened 2 t-chinese invasion starters, contact him.

I can also check , what i have arround. Can you give a pricerange, what you can pay for old foreign non foil/foil lands ?

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mmgun
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Re: Where to acquire T-Chinese cards?

Post by mmgun » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:54 am

In your spreadsheet you list simplified chinese Alternate Art and simplified chinese Portal1. These are the same lands.

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casperjjj
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Re: Where to acquire T-Chinese cards?

Post by casperjjj » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:28 am

Oh. So there are no John Avon Portal 1 S-Chinese Forests?
Damn, that's gonna screw up my collection in my binders (gotta move everything from after Portal 1 four places back :-O )..

When you say old, do you then mean old framed cards?

Whenever there are a few T-Chinese cards available on MKM hey are usually around 1-2 euros for non-foil and 2-4 euros for foil.
(I have 1 from 5th Edt, all from Tempest, 1 from Urza's, 2 from P3K, all from Mercadian Masques, 4 from Invasion (1 now, 3 pending), 5 from Odyssey and 5 from Onslaught - and that's the ballpark 'i've been in within when purchasing those).

Would that work for you? You think you have some?

I'm currently awaiting the vendor Card Master Games in Taiwan; they have responded to my mail and are currently looking through my wants to see what they have in stock :-p .. So let's just wait a moment and see what they dig up - and then we can talk afterwards :-)

Regards,
Casper
I'm always on the lookout for cards for my Global Library of Leng Playset Collection:

Any help getting my wants is greatly appreciated!

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mmgun
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Re: Where to acquire T-Chinese cards?

Post by mmgun » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:11 pm

casperjjj wrote:Oh. So there are no John Avon Portal 1 S-Chinese Forests?
Damn, that's gonna screw up my collection in my binders (gotta move everything from after Portal 1 four places back :-O )..

Thats right, s-chinese portal1 is the set with the alternate art cards. There is just one version of each card and if there exist an alternate version, then there is no original art version in this set.

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casperjjj
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Re: Where to acquire T-Chinese cards?

Post by casperjjj » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:33 pm

Excellent, thanks for clarifying that :-)
You haven't come across any other flaws in my spreadsheet?

Thanks!

/Casper
I'm always on the lookout for cards for my Global Library of Leng Playset Collection:

Any help getting my wants is greatly appreciated!

User avatar
casperjjj
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Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Denmark (Slagelse)

Re: Help on rarities and AP's and other stuff

Post by casperjjj » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:55 pm

Up. New topic.
Good evening everybody :-)
I'm always on the lookout for cards for my Global Library of Leng Playset Collection:

Any help getting my wants is greatly appreciated!

cataclysm80
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Re: Help on rarities and AP's and other stuff

Post by cataclysm80 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:31 am

casperjjj wrote: 2) Irregular Forests
I have a couple of questions which I hope some of you can shed some light on. I'll just fire away;
- Are there Artist Proof Cards for all sets and all languages? Or only English? Or how does it work?
No, not all sets. Arabian Nights & English Unlimited have no proofs. I think there are several smaller specialty products which were not subject to rotation through Standard tournament play format that also did not get proofs. Stuff like Anthologies, Archenemy, Commander, From the Vault, Duel Decks, etc. Don't quote me on those specific products, because a few like Beatdown & Conspiracy did get artist proofs. It can be difficult to figure out.
No, not all languages. In the early days, there were a few foreign sets that did get proofs made, but after 4th Edition & Ice Age, it's English Only.
This link may be helpful...
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9450
casperjjj wrote: - What would you guess a general / "fair" price for AP Forest's would be? Of course older versions will be more expensive - I just have no idea of the ballpark.
That's a little difficult to say. Generally, I've seen proofs sell for anywhere between $5 to $100. (typically more towards the lower end of that range) Particularly rare or desirable ones (P9, dual Lands, Tom Wannerstrand, Richard Thomas, etc.) could go for several times that price. It really depends on how desirable the card is and how popular the artist is, whether the card is signed, and whether it has any custom artwork or alterations on it. (custom artwork can easily add $30 to $50 to the regular price, each artist sets their own rates, and some ask for considerably more) For you, I think that the Beta Artist Proof Forests will be most difficult. Chris Rush has passed away earlier this year.
casperjjj wrote: - Where do you find / purchase AP cards? You guys find them elsewhere then here? How do you do it?
The artist has (had?) all of them, so it's best to start there. Contact the artist directly.
If that doesn't work, there are a few people who frequently deal with the artists (for signings and such), and they may be able to get in touch with the artist for you. Tony Manion, Mark Aronowitz, Jack Stanton, Scott Mosser, etc.
Are you on Facebook? Social Networking is a great way to get in touch with people. If you can find me on Facebook, I'll point you in the right direction. :-D
casperjjj wrote: - Alpha, Beta and Gamma Playtest cards; how many of these exist? Very rare? Very expensive?
Alpha was 80 cards that Richard Garfield created by hand to test the idea with another player. Barry Reich played the first game with Richard, and Barry thought these 80 cards had been destroyed, but Richard told me more recently that he still has these in storage somewhere. You're not likely to ever find one, and we'll be lucky if we ever get to see them.
Beta Playtest actually consists of several different Revisions.
Gamma is another Revision, but the name change signifies that something about playtesting was different. I think that the Gamma playtest was a larger group of people, so more playtest cards were printed, and you'll have an easier time finding these.
From what I've heard, they originally printed between 2,000 to 4,000 playtest cards for each Revision. Most of those were probably thrown away after the real cards became available. It's hard to say how many survived.
Alpha, Beta, and Gamma are all considered Alpha playtest cards because they were playtest cards for the first Magic set. (that can be confusing)
The Misprint Guy on YouTube is the largest Alpha playtest collector, so prices are pretty much up to him.
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/955-rar ... index.html

In addition, there are playtest cards for several other sets. Ice Age 1993 (has forests), Menagerie 1993 (has forests)(this eventually became Mirage & Visions), Arabian Nights (should have forests), Ice Age 1994 (has forests), Portal (has forests)
Antiquities, Legends, The Dark, Fallen Empires, Alliances, Homelands & Menagerie 1994 also had similar paper playtest cards. While I've not seen any playtest basic lands for those sets, it would have been difficult to playtest without them. I wonder what they used for playtest basic lands. Regular cards would not have shuffled properly with the paper playtest cards.
Portal seems to be the first playtest set to use stickers on real cards. Portal Playtest does have basic lands, but I suspect that any subsequent playtest sets would have just used real cards for the basic lands.
casperjjj wrote: - I've seen images here in this site of "ALTERNATE FRAME 8TH EDITION WITH UNGLUED / JUDGMENT SYMBOL TEST PRINTS"; How is the rarity of these? Possible to obtain them? I have no idea of where to look for them and I have no idea what one of these Forest's should cost. Ballparl anyone?
Test Prints are all quite rare. It's difficult to get actual print run numbers. Yes, it's possible to obtain them. I have some, but not any Forests. I've seen non-foils sell in the $400 to $1000 range, with foils selling for double that or more. A friend currently has Mountain & Plains for sale with an asking price of $3,500 each.
I saw someone on Facebook looking for these Forests a few weeks ago, so unless that was you, there is someone else looking for them.
casperjjj wrote: - Are there any Albino Forest's anyone know of? Revised albino cards exist, right? Ballpark here?
Yes, Revised albino cards exist. Lucky for you that Forest appeared on that sheet several times.
I've seen junk albinos go for around $300 lately. A pair of Albino Islands sold for around $500 each. Forests would probably be somewhere in the middle of that range.
casperjjj wrote: - Where can I find these Forest's: "FIFTH EDITION TRADITIONAL CHINESE WITH TIGERS & BLACK PANTHERS & LIONS BACK"??
I believe that 2 Uncommon sheets are known to exist. They are whole sheets, not individual cards, so you'd need to find one of those whole sheets. Since they are both Uncommon sheets, they don't have any Forests, so you probably won't need these. They are scrap sheets used to set up the printing press, and then because they were scrap, used as packing material to ship other products. It's quite possible that a Land sheet with cat backs was never made. When the Land sheet was about to be printed, I'm sure that some kind of scrap sheets were made while the press was being set up and checked, but it's anyone's guess what might have been on the back. Maybe something random from another game as with the cats, or maybe double faced Lands, it could be anything, but it was probably destroyed as intended, and we'll never know.
casperjjj wrote: - I've seen images of textless Forest's ("TEXTLESS "SUMMER COLOR" TEST PRINTS") and cards with this wording "Test Printing": Again, where can these be obtained? And at which prices?
There is also a Forest with the German text of the card Weakness. These are VERY VERY RARE. Two copies of the textless Forest are known to exist, and One copy of the "Test Printing" Forest. For the textless Forest, I would guess the price between $2,000 to $3,000.
If posted where to obtain them, then someone else might get to them before you did. Best to discuss that in a Private Message.

There are also M15 Test Print Forests
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9752&hilit=m15

There are Harry Potter backed Forests

Then there are also other misprint types that you could search for Forest versions.
cut off center
miscut showing another card
miscut showing multiple other cards
miscut on the back side but normal on the front (I know these exists from Revised)
crimped
crimped and cut with the crimper so it's not regular card sized anymore
upside down card back (I know this exists on Arena foil Forests)
color registration error (also known as Slur. One color layer doesn't line up with the others, producing a blurry image.)
Multi Printed
Color Error (maybe really dark printing, or maybe missing one of the 4 colors, etc.)
Smeared printing
dark ink blotch
light oval blotch from sheet getting wet during printing and ink not setting properly
Shifted Foil from Mercadian Masques
something solid stuck inside the card between the front and back (like a hard bubble)
separated front and back so that you can see the blue layer inside the card
Tape on the card with printing on top of the tape but not under it
sheet folded during printing and cutting, later unfolded so it's bigger than a normal card and odd shaped

Happy Hunting!
Tav
Last edited by cataclysm80 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mmgun
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Re: Help on rarities and AP's and other stuff

Post by mmgun » Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:56 pm

For albinos: There should be some foreign ( portoguese) Ice age ones arround.

Image

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