Could someone help me identify this card?

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hunterjwizard
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Could someone help me identify this card?

Post by hunterjwizard » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:46 am

So I found this Korean-language Shivan Dragon on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-KOREAN-BLACK- ... 35cf6e9645 went ahead and bought it because I do like foreign-language cards, but I cannot figure out what set it hails from.

The card is black-bordered but bears a 1996 copyright date, which I find especially confusing. The Shivan was printed in 4th Edition(Revised) with a white-boarder and no copyright, then again in 5th Edition with a 1997 copyright. The 1996 date puts it around the same era as Mirage.

I'm baffled.

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jamesbond
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Post by jamesbond » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:58 am

Hi,

This Shivan Dragon is in Fourth Edition.

Like all basic sets, it appears in black border if it's the first time the set is traduce in this language.

You have :

English > Alpha
French/Italian/German > 3rd Edition
Portuguese/Spanish/Japanese/Chinese/Korean > 4th Edition
Russian > 9th Edition

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Post by hunterjwizard » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:34 am

Well that answers that quite neatly, thanks!

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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:37 pm

And if it is in nice condition it is a good find.

I was here when it was released and the Koreans played the heck out of their cards with very few using sleeves. Also, specially at that time, Very few Koreans actually collected cards-still the case, sadly.

Enjoy.

Gary
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Post by hunterjwizard » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:40 am

it does appear to be in very good condition, so that will be a nice addition to my dragon collection.

question: 4th edition was printed in 1995, but the copyright date is 1996, was 4th reprinted later for the other markéts? what years?

these days, at least in my understanding, foreign language cards are printed at the same time and are essentially part of the same print run. i take it that wasnt always the case?

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psrex
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Post by psrex » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:28 pm

You should check out the actual Library portion of the site, specifically the Card Sets section:

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/sets.ht ... 9e4bc296e1

With the old base sets, they were usually available for about two years, so though 4th edition started in 1995 in English, it was not so everywhere.

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Post by hunterjwizard » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:51 pm

Hey, look at that, I always went straight to the "rarities" section of the site!

Well, that adds about 4 new dragons to my buy-list... won't be hard to get them but still, the fact that unlimited and revised were printed black-bordered in other countries counts.

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psrex
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Post by psrex » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:34 pm

hunterjwizard wrote:Hey, look at that, I always went straight to the "rarities" section of the site!

Well, that adds about 4 new dragons to my buy-list... won't be hard to get them but still, the fact that unlimited and revised were printed black-bordered in other countries counts.
The terms at the time were that limited meant black-bordered, and unlimited meant white-bordered. There was no printing of Unlimited in other languages, but you will find Revised in Italian, French and German. So, you'll find WB and BB versions of Revised for those three languages.

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Post by hunterjwizard » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:38 pm

psrex wrote:
The terms at the time were that limited meant black-bordered, and unlimited meant white-bordered. There was no printing of Unlimited in other languages, but you will find Revised in Italian, French and German. So, you'll find WB and BB versions of Revised for those three languages.
But user jamesbond identified my shivan as belonging to 4th edition(Unlimited), and the auction image is clearly black-bordered.

In fact, one of the pages you linked me to http://www.magiclibrarities.net/sets-fo ... ition.html says that Unlimited WAS printed in black-borders in Porteguise, Spanish, Japanese, Korean, and Traditional Chinese.

So, ya know, ever so slightly confused here.

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psrex
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Post by psrex » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:49 pm

If you go back to the Card Sets page you can select Unlimited, Revised, Fourth Edition, etc. and see what languages the sets were printed in. If a column for a particular language is blank then it was not printed in that language. Sometimes you'll get more than one printing with a particular set and a given language. For sets with a BB and WB version, the BB version is in the top section and the WB version is in the bottom section.

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Post by hunterjwizard » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:45 pm

Right. And according to the page for 4th edition it was printed black-bordered in Porteguise, Spanish, Japanese, Korean, and Traditional Chinese. So confusion aleviated I think.

Man, this is tough stuff to learn. Thank you all for helping out, and also for creating these really handy and detailed resources that I am slowly learning to use.

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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:21 pm

It might help to not mix terms too. Remember some of the "editions" got special names which worked nice for marketing hype but added a confusion factor.

Today the whole process has 20 years of trial and error to build on.... LOL.

Limited = 1st Edition (broken down by collectors into Alpha/Beta)
Unlimited = 2nd Edition
Revised = 3rd Edition
4th Ed.
5th Ed.
Classic = 6th Edition

This was the US market and printings. There was some lag time in getting cards out in other languages as just the mechanical printing process was a bottleneck. Cards for the English market could not be printed fast enough to fill the demand--let alone adding the complexity of translating/printing/packaging/distributing the other languages. Thus the "3rd Edition [revised]" in French German and Italian came out a little later and each was printed in a "limited (bb)" and "unlimited (wb)" format. 4th Edition in the other languages came out the next year with those languages printed only in WB and three of the new languages, Portuguese, Spanish and Japanese printed in both WB and BB.
The Portuguese was a bit of a surprise to my son that the demand was high enough for a second printing as he worried about it and Korean having big enough markets.
Sorry for all the chatter but I hope it smooths out some of the confusion without causing too much more.

Gary

All had dragons in them.....
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Post by hunterjwizard » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:34 am

Well... it does cause a bit more, but it seems a lot of people and places have been using the wrong terminology. I had always heard it:

Alpha = 1st
Beta = 2nd
Revised = 3rd
Unlimited = 4th

Which... seeing as 4th and Unlimited are apparently 2 seperate things AND Unlimited came before Revised, it appears I may have just had a few holes poked in my collection.

This also means I get to re-number all 232 dragon cards once more... and that I get to add five or six to the pile. FORTUNATELY they should all be pretty cheap. Going to have to do some extensive research when I get home. But hey, if anybody has a beat-to-hell Alpha Shivan they want to send to a good home, let me know.

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Post by mystical_tutor » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:42 am

Yes, I have run into all too many people that think A and B are different editions. They are not. I have a display box of starter decks. It is sealed and there is no way to know if it is A or B except by opening it--which I'd rather not do.

The "Unlimited" title on the 2nd edition really refers to the "type" of edition rather than the number of it. Basicly, all the core sets after 1st Ed. up to 10th Ed. were "unlimited" WB cards. WotC stopped fighting the battle though and started printing everything in BB because that is what the customer wants.

Just took them a bunch of years to pay any attention to the players and change.

You may find some of those WB 3d/4th edition cards hard to get. Best of luck.

Gary
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Post by hunterjwizard » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:04 am

Unopened display box of starter decks - wow. Just wow. I don't even want to speculate on the value of something like that. On behalf of younger players and future generations, thank you for preserving something like that.

As for the white-bordered cards, they aren't difficult to come by, I can probably get all of the shivans and whelps I am missing for around $5 - the difficulty lay in knowing that these were in fact separate editions.

The HARD part is going to be finding the black-bordered foreign-language cards.

Hmm, so it seems like I really shouldn't even bother trying to get a hold of an "alpha" Shivan Dragon, so long as I have a Beta? That... would be lovely.

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