Beta Starter Decks with Alpha Cut Rares

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cataclysm80
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Beta Starter Decks with Alpha Cut Rares

Post by cataclysm80 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:41 am

Regarding the Beta Starter Decks with Alpha Cut Rares...

Were the Alpha Cut rares in Beta Starters actually Alpha Rares, or were they miscut Beta Rares?

If they were miscut Beta, then it should be possible to find an Alpha cut Volcanic Island, even though that card was not part of the Alpha print run.

Thoughts?

Tav

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BillBo
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Re: Beta Starter Decks with Alpha Cut Rares

Post by BillBo » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:24 am

cataclysm80 wrote:an Alpha cut Volcanic Island
If there is one, I wanna have it :-\'
I collect land cards, just that.
My want list: http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=9128

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Re: Beta Starter Decks with Alpha Cut Rares

Post by dragsamou » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:34 am

BillBo wrote:
cataclysm80 wrote:an Alpha cut Volcanic Island
If there is one, I wanna have it :-\'
Hi All

One members owns one here, I need to find back the topic about it.

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... ght=#49648

Image
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cataclysm80
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Post by cataclysm80 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:28 am

Here is another relevant librarities thread...

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... f52f668125

Tav

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Post by Rainsford » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:27 am

They were Alpha cards. Ones that were left over from the Alpha packaging. The "Extras" as it were.

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Rainsford

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Post by mystical_tutor » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:28 pm

Tav. There were Alpha rares in beta starters (not sure about booters). They were left over from the first part of the run and there were no VI or COP Black.

This whole thing is much easier to understand when you stop and remember that as far as the printer was concerned THERE WERE NO ALPHA OR BETA CARDS, ONLY "THIS PRINT JOB".

Calculating production numbers is a hind sight that is looking at something no one at that time saw or could see (or cared the slightest about).

Once the new corner cutters were set and being used there could not have been an "alpha cut" card (though some of them sure get close later on).

I would strongly suspect that the above card is a Beta card that has been messed with. Or, giving it as much credibility as possible, produced and cut at the very end of the production run as the corner cutting became more rounded.

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Post by Tha_Gunslinga » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:12 pm

The Volc has the white dots which no Beta or IE/CE Volcs ever had. I really don't understand it.

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Post by dragsamou » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:30 pm

Hi All

Maybe Pickle69 has some info that he didn't share about this card, at any rate, I would love to know what the seller told him about it.
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cataclysm80
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Post by cataclysm80 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:56 pm

I'd also like to hear what the seller had to say about it.

It's good to know that the Alpha cut cards in Beta are actually Alpha cards.



So,...

Alpha cards have the white dots.

Beta cards also have the white dots, except for the cards that were added (Volcanic Island, COP:Black, additional art of each basic land)

Collector's Edition / International Edition still have the double black border, but without the white dots.

Unlimited has white border.


So how do we have a Volcanic Island with the white dots?

Maybe it would help to know what caused the double black border? I was under the impression that the inner black border was part of the card design done by WotC, while the outer black border was added by Carta Mundi to fill out the black borders. The white dots being a misalignment of the two borders. That might not be correct though. What do you guys think?

Not sure how things worked back then, but I've heard that on the newer cards the borders are pre-printed on the sheets. Could a misalignment or sheet feed problem have caused the white dots on this Volcanic Island?

Another possibility, Why was Volcanic Island left off the Alpha Sheets? Maybe this card was from a test that was ran before Volcanic Island was accidentaly removed from the sheet? (seems unlikely)

Just throwing some ideas out there to get us thinking.

Tav

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Post by berkumps » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:39 pm

Could you photoshop the white dots? Or scratch them into the surface with a very fine tipped blade/pin?

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Post by dragsamou » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:21 pm

cataclysm80 wrote: Another possibility, Why was Volcanic Island left off the Alpha Sheets? Maybe this card was from a test that was ran before Volcanic Island was accidentaly removed from the sheet? (seems unlikely)

Just throwing some ideas out there to get us thinking.

Tav
Hi Tav

It's an internal WOTC error:

https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/ ... /arcana/70
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Re: Beta Starter Decks with Alpha Cut Rares

Post by Aaron Patten » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:49 pm

dragsamou wrote:
BillBo wrote:
cataclysm80 wrote:an Alpha cut Volcanic Island
If there is one, I wanna have it :-\'
Hi All

One members owns one here, I need to find back the topic about it.

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... ght=#49648

Image
Hello,
sorry to necro this thread but I'm trying to verify the authenticity of this Volcanic Island. Can you tell me who currently posses it so that they can tell me the story?
D.A.P.

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BillBo
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Re: Beta Starter Decks with Alpha Cut Rares

Post by BillBo » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:03 am

Please, do (necro it, I mean) I'd love to hear the story, too.
I collect land cards, just that.
My want list: http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=9128

cataclysm80
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Re:

Post by cataclysm80 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:12 am

cataclysm80 wrote: So how do we have a Volcanic Island with the white dots?

Maybe it would help to know what caused the double black border? I was under the impression that the inner black border was part of the card design done by WotC, while the outer black border was added by Carta Mundi to fill out the black borders. The white dots being a misalignment of the two borders.
I've looked into this a bit more since then. YES, the inner black border was made by Wizards and was on the film sent to Carta Mundi for making the printing plates. This Wizards black border is comprised of all the colors (blue, red, yellow, black). The film had blank (white) spaces between the cards, so Carta Mundi applied a black tape to the film before making the printing plates. The Carta Mundi black tape printed as solid plain black with no other colors in it. This is why Alpha / Beta cards have two shades of black border. The white spots in the corners are a gap between the Wizards black and the Carta Mundi tape.

When Beta was sent to print, only the additional and modified/corrected cards were burned to film and sent to Carta Mundi. The machine which transfers the image from film to printing plate was able to do something called step & repeat, so Carta Mundi blanked out the cards which were being replaced on the Alpha films and didn't burn the new Beta plates in those spots. Then the machine went back and burned the Beta films into the blank spots on the Beta plates.

The 7 new cards missing the white dots are not the only cards in Beta which are missing the white dots. At least some of the other cards which were modified/corrected are also missing the white dots.
These cards DO still have the double black border, but it's harder to see because the color tones are different.

cataclysm80 wrote: Not sure how things worked back then, but I've heard that on the newer cards the borders are pre-printed on the sheets. Could a misalignment or sheet feed problem have caused the white dots on this Volcanic Island?
The black on the card is printed in two steps.
First is the black contained in rich black. This would be the black in the picture, card frame, & Wizards inner black border.
Second is the plain black. This would be the drop shadow for gray text, rules text, mana symbols, & Carta Mundi outer black border.

If there was a misalignment of the two black layers during the printing process, it could cause the white corner dots to appear (or disappear on other cards, depending on which way the alignment was off). If this is the case, you'd probably be able to see a difference in whether the mana symbols are centered inside their circles, and maybe you could compare the position of the rules text to the background colored lines.
I haven't yet taken the time to more closely compare this card to a regular Beta copy.

Tav

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Re: Beta Starter Decks with Alpha Cut Rares

Post by mystical_tutor » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Just a muse... Be interesting to send this into Beckett for grading. Wonder what they would come up with for authenticity and how would them classify it......

Ya, sometimes I have a sick mind.....

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