New Bling Bling Promos

Information about new Magic items and events.

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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by dragsamou » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:03 am

cataclysm80 wrote:I don't know the correct terminology to describe it, but I seem to recall that some sets (core sets I think), had some promotional cards come out in small packs, and those cards were not part of the normal set. Those cards may have had an S after the collector number.
I could be remembering it wrong. It wasn't something that I collect.
I see, you mean those:
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/540-rar ... index.html
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/531-rar ... index.html

With the New frame, it was never used so far.

For the moment, I keep Masterpiece Series:
The Masterpiece Series will exist at a rarity higher than mythic rare. For example, in Kaladesh, you will open a Kaladesh Inventions card roughly 1 out of every 144 boosters. (Technically, the Kaladesh booster pack says the ratio is 1:2,160 cards.) This is slightly more often than opening a premium mythic rare. These ratios may change for future sets.
According to some MTG websites, it goes this way (but not all of them):
Common
Uncommon
Rare
Mythic Rare
Timeshifted
Masterpiece

Example: Sol Ring will be a Masterpiece Series card with a Masterpiece rarity
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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by cataclysm80 » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:09 am

Yes, that's it. I'm glad someone knew what I was talking about.

dragsamou wrote: According to some MTG websites, it goes this way (but not all of them):
Common
Uncommon
Rare
Mythic Rare
Timeshifted
Masterpiece
This list is missing Priceless Treasures (from Zendikar), and Expeditions.
Didn't Unhinged have some different rarity cards also?
Were the alternate art Weatherlight, Ertai, & Tangarth a special rarity?

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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by dragsamou » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:42 am

cataclysm80 wrote:
dragsamou wrote:
dragsamou wrote: According to some MTG websites, it goes this way (but not all of them):
Common
Uncommon
Rare
Mythic Rare
Timeshifted
Masterpiece
This list is missing Priceless Treasures (from Zendikar), and Expeditions.
Didn't Unhinged have some different rarity cards also?
Were the alternate art Weatherlight, Ertai, & Tangarth a special rarity?

Tav
Priceless Treasures (from Zendikar) have the same rarity as the Original cards.
Zendikar Expeditions are assimilate to Mythic Rares, they do have the M numbering and are the precursor to the Masterpiece Series.
Unhinged have the regular Rarity: Common, Uncommon, Rare
Planeshift Alternate Art Cards were Rares
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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by cataclysm80 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:15 pm

dragsamou wrote: Priceless Treasures (from Zendikar) have the same rarity as the Original cards.
I wasn't playing when Zendikar came out, but I've heard that most of the Priceless Treasures were originally Rares.

Every Zendikar booster pack contains a Rare.
Every Zendikar booster pack does not contain a Priceless Treasure.
Priceless Treasures are more rare than Rares.

Was there 1 Priceless Treasure per case? 1 per 20 booster boxes? They were very rare.

If you had 121 booster packs of Unlimited & 121 booster packs of Zendikar, and you opened all of them, You would get way more Unlimited Rares than Zendikar Priceless Treasures.
You would probably get way more Unlimited P9 than Zendikar Priceless Treasures.
Again, this shows that Priceless Treasures were harder to get than when those cards were originally printed.

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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:51 pm

I didn't open Zendikar but I was under the impression that WotC just got a load of old printings of cards and shuffled them into the new cards.

So although it would be incredibly rare to find an Antiquities' Candelabra of Tawnos in a Zendikar booster, it was still an Antiquities Candelabra so the rarity would not have changed from its initial printing.

But I never opened one so I didn't look in to it much.

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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by cataclysm80 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:36 am

GlobalBoosterHunter wrote:I didn't open Zendikar but I was under the impression that WotC just got a load of old printings of cards and shuffled them into the new cards.

So although it would be incredibly rare to find an Antiquities' Candelabra of Tawnos in a Zendikar booster, it was still an Antiquities Candelabra

Yes, I believe this is correct. The priceless treasures were actual old cards, and not in mint condition. After they're opened, you can't tell them apart from other old cards.


Of all the Candelabra of Tawnos cards made (or other old cards), only a very small percentage of those became priceless treasures.
A Candelabra sealed in an Antiquities pack is rare. A Candelabra sealed in a Zendikar pack is more rare.
This is true, even if you can't tell the two Candelabras apart after opening them.

Card rarity is not based on how many copies of a card are in existence. There are many Common cards from older sets that have less copies in existence than new Rare cards due to todays very large print run sizes.
An Uncommon card does not change to a Common card just because it gets reprinted in several sets.

Card rarity is based on how likely you are to open that card from a sealed booster pack.
Common, several per pack
Uncommon, a few per pack
Rare, one per pack
Mythic Rare, one every X packs
Masterpiece, one every y packs
Priceless Treasures, one every z packs

It's a matter of how likely someone would be to open one.
Kird Ape is a Common in Arabian Nights, but an Uncommon in 9th Edition.
Candelabra is an Uncommon in Antiquities (there was no Rare sheet), but it's a Priceless Treasure in Zendikar.

This different rarity may be important for someone who is trying to collect or invest in sealed product.

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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by dragsamou » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:49 am

cataclysm80 wrote:
GlobalBoosterHunter wrote:I didn't open Zendikar but I was under the impression that WotC just got a load of old printings of cards and shuffled them into the new cards.

So although it would be incredibly rare to find an Antiquities' Candelabra of Tawnos in a Zendikar booster, it was still an Antiquities Candelabra

Yes, I believe this is correct. The priceless treasures were actual old cards, and not in mint condition. After they're opened, you can't tell them apart from other old cards.


Of all the Candelabra of Tawnos cards made (or other old cards), only a very small percentage of those became priceless treasures.
A Candelabra sealed in an Antiquities pack is rare. A Candelabra sealed in a Zendikar pack is more rare.
This is true, even if you can't tell the two Candelabras apart after opening them.

Card rarity is not based on how many copies of a card are in existence. There are many Common cards from older sets that have less copies in existence than new Rare cards due to todays very large print run sizes.
An Uncommon card does not change to a Common card just because it gets reprinted in several sets.

Card rarity is based on how likely you are to open that card from a sealed booster pack.
Common, several per pack
Uncommon, a few per pack
Rare, one per pack
Mythic Rare, one every X packs
Masterpiece, one every y packs
Priceless Treasures, one every z packs

It's a matter of how likely someone would be to open one.
Kird Ape is a Common in Arabian Nights, but an Uncommon in 9th Edition.
Candelabra is an Uncommon in Antiquities (there was no Rare sheet), but it's a Priceless Treasure in Zendikar.

This different rarity may be important for someone who is trying to collect or invest in sealed product.

Tav
Hi Tav

As I don't collect any regular cards after Exodus, I look at the Priceless Treasure description and list:
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Zendi ... _Treasures

The fact that they are inserted in X boosters doesn't change the Rarity of the card:
If we take the example of a Black Lotus, it's still a Rare on the Rare sheet of Alpha, Beta, Unlimited.

For Timeshifted, it's more complicated:
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Timeshifted

Timeshifted in Time Spiral: One timeshifted card appears in every Time Spiral booster pack, making the cards roughly 50% rarer than rare cards, which also appear once per pack but comprise of only 80 cards. However, in the Time Spiral Preconstructed Decks, timeshifted cards are treated as though they had their original rarity, as each deck features several of the timeshifted cards that were originally common, including multiples of the same card.

Timeshifted in Planar Chaos: As Planar Chaos's timeshifted cards were technically new cards rather than direct reprints, it was decided to distribute them more widely than the timeshifted cards in Time Spiral. Unlike Time Spiral, the cards are part of the main set and are divided into commons, uncommons and rares. Each Planar Chaos booster contains eight regular common cards, three timeshifted commons, two regular uncommon cards, one regular rare card and either a timeshifted uncommon or a timeshifted rare (a timeshifted uncommon being three times more likely than a rare due to the relative numbers of each in the set).

Timeshifted in Future Sight: The cards are distributed haphazardly in booster packs, with each booster containing somewhere between five and ten timeshifted cards. As with Planar Chaos, the cards have the standard colored rarity symbols.

For Zendikar Expedition Cards having a M Rarity written on the card:
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Zendikar_Expeditions

These cards feature a special Zendikari card frame and a separate expansion symbol. Thus, they are not part of the sets themselves. Zendikar Expeditions feature all new art set on Zendikar and will appear slightly more often than premium mythic rares.

For Masterpiece Series Cards having a S Rarity written on the card:
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Masterpiece_Series

The card versions of the Masterpiece Series exist at a rarity higher than mythic rare, but slightly less rare than a foil mythic rare. For example, for Kaladesh roughly 1 out of every 144 boosters contains a Masterpiece (technically 1:2,160 cards.) These ratios may change for future sets.

So, I have a look at MTG shops, most of them are selling the Kaladesh Inventions with a Mythic Rare Rarity. As usual with WotC, it's always a headache and no precised answer is available for now...
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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:06 am

That makes sense!

So I guess a card can be uncommon and common depending on which booster you open it from, using the Kird Ape example, my favourite card!

So would it all be down to which sheet it is printed on rather than which booster it comes from? I.e. if it is printed on the common sheet in Arabian Nights and the common sheet in Revised but on the uncommon sheet in another set then you treat each cards rarity according to the sheet it was printed on, except in the odd instance of WotC being amazing and slipping in a card from another expansion as a chase card.

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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by dragsamou » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:20 am

GlobalBoosterHunter wrote:That makes sense!

So I guess a card can be uncommon and common depending on which booster you open it from, using the Kird Ape example, my favourite card!

So would it all be down to which sheet it is printed on rather than which booster it comes from? I.e. if it is printed on the common sheet in Arabian Nights and the common sheet in Revised but on the uncommon sheet in another set then you treat each cards rarity according to the sheet it was printed on, except in the odd instance of WotC being amazing and slipping in a card from another expansion as a chase card.
Hi Mark

The Change of Rarity is fairly common in MTG, a lot of cards were concerned in 9th Edition for example:

Changes in rarity

The following cards changed rarity from their last printing to 9th Edition.

Anarchist was a common in Odyssey and is now an uncommon.
Consume Spirit was a common in Mirrodin and is now an uncommon.
Cruel Edict was a common in Portal Second Age and is now an uncommon.
Dancing Scimitar was a rare in 6th Edition and is now an uncommon.
Dream Prowler was a common in Stronghold and is now an uncommon.
Flowstone Crusher was a common in Nemesis and is now an uncommon.
Foul Imp was an uncommon in 7th Edition and is now a common.
Gift of Estates was a rare in Portal and is now an uncommon.
Hypnotic Specter was an uncommon in 4th Edition and is now a rare.
Jade Statue was an uncommon in Unlimited and is now a rare.
King Cheetah was a common in Visions and is now an uncommon.
Kird Ape was a common in Revised and is now an uncommon.
Ley Druid was a common in 5th Edition and is now an uncommon.
Nantuko Husk was a common in Onslaught and is now an uncommon.
Natural Spring was an uncommon in Starter 1999 and is now a common.
Loxodon Warhammer was an uncommon in Mirrodin and is now a rare.
Regeneration was a common in 8th Edition and is now an uncommon.
Rootbreaker Wurm was a common in Tempest and is now an uncommon.
Soul Warden was a common in Exodus and is now an uncommon.
Summer Bloom was a rare in Starter 1999 and is now an uncommon.
Tanglebloom was a common in Mirrodin and is now an uncommon.
Thought Courier was a common in Fifth Dawn and is now an uncommon.
Ur-Golem's Eye was a common in Darksteel and is now an uncommon.
Veteran Cavalier was an uncommon in Starter 1999 and is now a common.
Vulshok Morningstar was a common in Darksteel and is now an uncommon.
Web was a rare in 4th Edition and is now an uncommon.
Zealous Inquisitor was a common in Scourge and is now an uncommon.

If we take the example of Kird Ape and where it was placed on the sheet:
Arabian Nights: Common (5)
Summer Magic: Common
Revised: Common
Beatdown: Common
Ninth Edition: Uncommon
FNM: Promo (could be Common or Uncommon)
From the Vault: Exiled: Mythic
Duels Deck: Ajani vs. Nicol Bolas: Uncommon
Eternal Masters: Common
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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:15 pm

Glad I stopped collecting the cards before it got too crazy, I stopped when they brought the foils out so I missed all the mythics etc. Mind you , even back then we had several levels of common depending on how many times it was printed on the common sheet so I guess if it started off chaotic it was only ever going to get more complicated.

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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by cataclysm80 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:37 am

dragsamou wrote: The fact that they are inserted in X boosters doesn't change the Rarity of the card:
If we take the example of a Black Lotus, it's still a Rare on the Rare sheet of Alpha, Beta, Unlimited.
A Black Lotus in an Alpha booster pack is a Rare.
Roughly 1100 sheets of 121 Rares per sheet were printed. (yes, I know Island appeared more than once.)
Every Alpha Booster pack contained a Rare, so your odds of opening a Black Lotus from an Alpha pack is 1 in 121

For Unlimited, roughly 18500 sheets of 121 Rares per sheet were printed. (yes, I know Island appeared only once on these sheets.)
Every Unlimited Booster pack contained a Rare, so your odds of opening a Black Lotus from an Unlimited pack is 1 in 121
A Black Lotus in an Unlimited booster pack is still a Rare. Same odds of opening, even though almost 17 times as many Black Lotus cards were printed in Unlimited.

Rarity of a card is entirely separate from total world population. An Alpha Black Lotus (1100 made) is much harder to find than an Unlimited Black Lotus (18500 made), but they have equal rarity.
You see, total world population of Black Lotus cards went up a Lot, which makes Black Lotus cards easier to get, but it did not change the rarity of the card. Black Lotus was still a Rare because rarity is based on your chances to open a specific card from a booster pack.
Rare odds 1 in 121
Uncommon odds 3 in 121 (= 1 in 40.3)
Common odds 11 in 121 (= 1 in 11)
Masterpiece odds 1 in 2160
The fact that a card is inserted in X boosters does change the rarity of the card. It's the entire basis of card rarity.

I don't have print run info for Zendikar, but I'm confident that the number of Black Lotuses inserted into Zendikar packs was less than 1100, and the number of Zendikar packs produced was significantly more than the number of Alpha packs produced.
This would make the odds of opening a Black Lotus in a Zendikar pack 1 in (very large number, bigger than 121).
A Black Lotus in a Zendikar pack would occupy the Priceless Treasure rarity slot, which is different from the Rare rarity slot.
Priceless Treasures are more rare than a Rare. Whether the Priceless Treasure was originally a Rare, Uncommon, or Common is irrelevant, it will be harder to find than a Rare.

I mentioned earlier that rarity of a card was entirely separate from world population.
In the previous example, world population went way up, but rarity did not change.
For Priceless Treasures, world population does not change, but rarity goes way up.

IF the Priceless Treasures had been newly printed cards instead of old cards, remaining inserted into packs at the same rate as what actually happened, Then there would be no doubt at all that Priceless Treasure is a unique rarity slot.
Mythic Rare, Timeshifted, and Masterpiece are all unique rarity slots. Priceless Treasures should also be listed as a unique rarity.
The confusion only exists because we can't tell them apart from the original printing after opening them.
The fact remains that an Alpha Black Lotus sealed inside a Zendikar pack is more rare than an Alpha Black Lotus sealed inside an Alpha pack.

We should include Priceless Treasure as a rarity option, and have a list of cards that could potentially be opened. This information could be important to sealed pack collectors and investors.
That would be a better solution than ignoring Priceless Treasures or pretending they don't exist. We're here to accurately document history.


dragsamou wrote: So, I have a look at MTG shops, most of them are selling the Kaladesh Inventions with a Mythic Rare Rarity.
What the MTG shops do is not necessarily correct. The probably have a software limitation. For them it's multiple choice, Common, Uncommon, Rare, or Mythic. They simply choose the best answer, even if it's not correct. If WotC continues making these in the future, maybe there will be a software update showing the new rarity level.
Many shops list Candelabra of Tawnos as a Rare, and that's not correct either.


GlobalBoosterHunter wrote: That makes sense!
So would it all be down to which sheet it is printed on rather than which booster it comes from? I.e. if it is printed on the common sheet in Arabian Nights and the common sheet in Revised but on the uncommon sheet in another set then you treat each cards rarity according to the sheet it was printed on,
You have the right idea, but it's not quite accurate to describe it that way because some sets have weird sheet layouts.
For example, Visions has 3 sheets, but they are not Common, Uncommon, Rare.
The Common sheet is 110 cards, having 2 copies of 55 cards. (not all of the Commons)
The Uncommon sheet is 110 cards, having 2 copies of 55 cards. (yes, all of the Uncommons)
The Rare sheet is only 100 cards, having 1 copy of each of the 50 rares, & 7 copies each of the other 7 Commons (+1 more Common)
Because of stuff like this, it's better to describe rarity as the chance of opening a specific card an a pack.

Each pack has 11 Commons. Each of those Commons is a chance to get the specific Common you want. Your odds are 11 in (quantity of Commons in the set)
If you take the bigger number (quantity of Commons in the set), and divide it by the little number (quantity of those in a pack), then you get a 1 in (answer) version of the odds, which is easier to compare with.
For example, if the Common sheet has 121 cards, then your odds of opening a specific Common are 11 in 121.
Dividing the big number by the little number, and we see that equals 1 in 11.
Compared to 1 in 2160 for Masterpiece cards gives a fair comparison of just how rare the Masterpiece cards are.

Right now, we have a lot of different rarities.
Common
Foil Common (does anyone know if Foil Commons are more rare than non-foil Uncommons?)
Uncommon
Foil Uncommon
Rare
Foil Rare
Mythic
Foil Mythic
Etc.


dragsamou wrote: If we take the example of Kird Ape and where it was placed on the sheet:
Arabian Nights: Common (5)
Summer Magic: Common
Revised: Common
Beatdown: Common
Ninth Edition: Uncommon
FNM: Promo (could be Common or Uncommon)
From the Vault: Exiled: Mythic
Duels Deck: Ajani vs. Nicol Bolas: Uncommon
Eternal Masters: Common
Beatdown, Promo cards, From the Vault, & Duel Deck cards may have colored expansion symbols to reflect the rarity level these cards have had previously, but these sets actually do not have any rarity because there is no randomization. Your odds of getting a specific card in any of these products is 1 in 1. You're guaranteed to get the card your looking for.
Collectors Edition is the same way. Black Lotus in Collectors Edition is just as Common as Grizzly Bears.

Tav

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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by mystical_tutor » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:19 pm

As with many of the others I think Masterpiece is most appropriate in that it will correspond with any official announcement/rulings/etc.

I hate to admit it but I love the art on these, they are masterpieces. You all know I am not a fan of digital art but these really grabbed me.

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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by dragsamou » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:19 pm

mystical_tutor wrote:As with many of the others I think Masterpiece is most appropriate in that it will correspond with any official announcement/rulings/etc.

I hate to admit it but I love the art on these, they are masterpieces. You all know I am not a fan of digital art but these really grabbed me.

Gary
The Art is indeed real good but the FTV foiling that they used is a disaster. I'm working on a solution with the help of some experts to get great scans, at that time I will upgrade and update the From the Vault Box sets (Only Dragons and Exiled are perfect with zoom function) and Masterpiece Series.
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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by dragsamou » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:49 am

Hi Members

So, I do finally have the answer from WotC:

Timeshifted: Rarity is Special
Priceless Treasures : Rarity is the original Rarity of the card (Even if they are more Rare in this promotional distribution)
Zendikar Expedition: Rarity is Mythic Rare
Masterpiece Series: Rarity is Special
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Re: New Bling Bling Promos

Post by cataclysm80 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:32 am

Going by that info, WotC would probably also say that Collectors Edition Black Lotus is a Rare, even though it was in every package.

Makes sense that S on the card stands for Special.

We should still keep a note somewhere about how frequently these cards appear in packs. Some Special cards are harder to get than other Special cards, even though they have the same rarity name.

The Timeshifted cards are Special rarity. I don't see scans of all the Timeshifted cards here on Librarities.
Does this mean that we will not gather scans for the Masterpiece cards since they are also Special?

OR, If we do gather scans for the Masterpiece cards, then we should also gather scans for the Timeshifted cards right?
Timeshifted is Special rarity, same as Masterpiece.
Where do we draw the line between what to document here, and what to leave for people to look up on Gatherer?

Tav

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