Ok, I have kept quiet on this subject for some time now, but the latest comments have shown sheer stupidity amongst members that I find horribly laughable.
Time to rip a few new ones....
For me, the downfall was in the fixation on John Avon. While it was interesting to ask him what he'd charge, once you heard back it should have been immediately apparent to everyone that his fee was out of reach. Why do you think no other Magic website have such an elaborate logo, even the most successful merchant sites?
Why not search out a lesser-known artist, even a non-Magic one? Why not hold an open logo contest?
Archivist: If you actually took the time to read this thread....
you will see that Ralph had answered this question:
Q: Well what artist would you prefer to have contracted to design the logo?
A: I want an established M:TG artist to do the logo artwork. Since I want a landscape I would like to have one of my favorite landscape artists do the artwork.
Ralph's site, Ralph's desires. I really don't think john Avon's fee was out of reach. Between a few members we easily hit 2/3's the project cost. What floored both Ralph, other contributors, and I was that the rest of you dillholes gave squat and did not comment on anything. Sorry if some of us can afford more, but it is those members we expected to get financial help from. Many members here buy boxes and singles by the boatload. It is obvious may could kick in $20 or more. No one seemed to care. Now I know we have members that cannot afford aynthing and I would not fault them, as I can understand this and fault them not at all. The rest of you can just suck it. Continue to be ass-leeches on this site.
The picture presently being used on the Library may not be the prettiest picture, but it is more than sufficient in my opinion. If other people do not like the picture, and want a different picture, than those same other people can, and should, be the ones to pay for a different picture - if indeed a cost must be met to change the current logo picture.
silver.paladin: Do you fail to understand that the logo Ralph is currently using cannot be used for anything at all? The logo is an obvious pirating of WOTC intellectual property that could easily be forced not to exist via a cease and desist order. Of course you ask why WOTC has not done anything, and that is because Ralph or the site has not made profit from it at all. A new logo would need devised to conduct any sanctioned project by the site, and Ralph desired to get one done by a reknowed artist, particularly one doing the best landscapes. Apparently you are too shortsighted to see this simple fact.
Besides, John Avon was going to charge a significant amount for the copyright - how many other artists would not have charged this additional fee?
silver.paladin[again]: Any artist that would be worthwhile getting would charge some fee of this type. For those of you not paying attention to the big picture on things, WOTC has not been investing money into new artwork just for the heck of it when doing card re-prints. They are doing it as they have changed their practices when dealing with artists. Artists used to be paid a smaller lump fee and then assigned royalties based on re-printing the art. This was done so a small startup company could afford the art for the product, and the artists are risking things hedging on the product doing well by which they will be paid handsomely for their royalties. Well all these new artworks that are coming out are being contracted very differently. WOTC is outright buying the art going forward. By this they have to pay a larger fee for the work upfront to placate the artist. This fee is their normal lump fee plus the fees associated with buying all the rights to the work. Any established M:TG artist would have charged this additional fee for outright buying the rights to the artwork, and with the desire to use a M:TG artist, we went into this knowing this fact. John acted like any other artist would have. In closing, get a clue.
[quote[And the work could have been just as good, if not better. [/quote]
silver.paladin[again]: HA HA! Apparently you are blind and mentally challenged, so no furuther comment.
One other item of thought I just had - is I think that this is a great example of where and when the concept of the "poll" could be used. I know I suggested about using polls quite a while back, and the few replies that were made in that thread were negative (in that it was not a good idea). But since then, Ralph has added the "poll" feature when creating new threads, and it has been used a few times (only 4 or 5 times so far I think).
silver.paladin[yet again]: DUH DUH DUH:
http://www.magiclibrary.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2428
This was the only option open for debate. Ralph had plans for the rest of the options since the site is his.
But, this could have been a very good time to have used it. Bascially, a poll with a number of options, could have clarified much earlier how much, or what kind of support was available for this kind of project. Yes, there was a thread, and discussion, but that was about it. A discussion was talked about, then a phone call to Ralph, then a quick discussion online here, and then virtually the next day, emails sent to John, information obtained, and then the request for funds.
silver.paladin[man I am getting tired of responding to you]: you apparently have no concept of time either Here is the timeline for a refresher:
Jul20-normalbrains opened the idea up about doing a special project
Jul23-Celebrindor was noted to come up with the textless dual land project
Jul26-After speaking with Ralph I posted to see if this was to be a members-only project or one endorsed by Magic Library.
-Also the poll to ask whether this should be a site-endorsed project was posted
Jul28-I got an anonymous response stating Rob Alexandar would not be available for the project.
Jul29-Poll results were in and for those that responded to the poll, 92% wanted the Textless Dual land project to use the new logo and be endsored by the site.
Aug4-John Avon responded to my email
Aug24-More John info based on our phone call. At this point the topic of money was opened up and I started the fund with my $1500 donation.
and so on...
My point is that a full 9 days passed prior to sending anything out to anyone. Money was not even discussed until close to a month later! Your illustration of the project being a "wham bam thank you m'am' rush is unfounded and moronic.
Personally, I think it would have been much smarter (in a business plan sense), to have a poll of some kind, and see what kind of financial support may have been made available, before the actual request for funds was made.
silver.paladin[yet again, sigh]: As stated before, I know what the financial power of this site is. It was obvious very few others cared enough to get this project going. Creating a poll just to show people what everyone can throw into the bucket would have been a foolish idea and not only does it belittle those that cannot donate and bascially publicize it, but it might also have people just donate what they feel they shouldd. I still think putting the goal of $3800 out and then asking people to contribute makes more sense. I treated this project as a donation project and like any other fund raiser where goals are posted and then status is then updated (ie. church or library fundraisers you see signs for). You obviously don't know how to run a project.
Bah, there is so much more I want to comment on, but this is not worth my time and is tiresome. Let me just say for the record in closing, thanks for those of you who wanted to donate or did donate, and for the rest of you that could have afforded something, screw off. Community my ass. Bunch of all-talk and no action butt wranglers is all I see. I am beyond livid at most of the community. I'll continue to post here and continue to aid Ralph as I have done in the past, but this project has really soured me on most of you. I am just in simple disbelief that there are so few that can see the big picture and what this could have meant. For those of you just wishing to keep the site as is, so be it, as this is where things stand. Also for the future I will publically state to expect no help or assistance of any kind should any project be devised. I am done. I am taking my ball and bat and going home.
Ralph: Still expect my usually contributions to contunue as they always have.