Magic Library Community Project

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normalbrains
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Magic Library Community Project

Post by normalbrains » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:47 am

I have an idea. Please tell me what you think.

We could all pitch in and make a limited edition set of tokens or proxies for our members and others who would like to buy them. The profit collected could go towards maintaining the site. I think it is within the realm of possibilty to make a high quality set of cards for a reasonable price. Please post in this thread your thoughts on the subject.

Several possibilties include:

1. A set of tokens- i personally think this has been overdone already
2. A set of proxies- similar to the gamingetc P9 which dont use the actual card names....example: bazaar, workshop, drain
3. Stickers which could be stuck over basic lands
4. Foils or other chase cards
5. Modifying normal cards. Possibly erasing the art box and printing something new in its place. This may be too impractical and also illegal, not sure


Id love to hear more ideas, especially from people who would be interested in helping with a community project. Id like to hear Ralph's opinion of course.

Thanks!
Last edited by normalbrains on Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Celebrindor
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Re: Magic Library Community Project

Post by Celebrindor » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:13 pm

normalbrains wrote:I have an idea. Please tell me what you think.

We could all pitch in and make a limited edition set of tokens or proxies for our members and others who would like to buy them. The profit collected could go towards maintaining the site. I think it is within the realm of possibilty to make a high quality set of cards for a reasonable price. Please post in this thread your thoughts on the subject.

Several possibilties include:

1. A set of tokens- i personally think this has been overdone already
2. A set of proxies- similar to the gamingetc P9 which dont use the actual card names....example: bazaar, workshop, drain
3. Stickers which could be stuck over basic lands
4. Foils or other chase cards

Id love to hear more ideas, especially from people who would be interested in helping with a project. Id like to hear Ralph's opinion of course.

Thanks!
1. This has definately been overdone.
2. Personally, I think proxies like this are lame, without violating copyright, decent proxies cannot be made.
3. not bad :)

How about this: we make cards of the members - like Vanguard cards, with us. We could make sticker sets, like you suggested.

normalbrains
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Post by normalbrains » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:26 pm

i personally would like to make something that would also have value to collectors outside of this small community. if we did this as a fundraiser for this site (or another charity or even for profit-sharing among investors), we wouldnt make many sales for vanguards of dragsmou and magicrumormill. i love the dry_cereal type cards, but they dont really fit into what im proposing.

and i totally disagree that decent proxies cant be made without violating copyright. anything is better to look at than a basic land with black ink scribbled on it. even if you dont like the gamingetc tokens layout and art, i think the idea has great merit. i dont always want to play casuals games with $500+ singles when i could play with a sharp-looking $1 card just the same. plus i think people that dont own the expensive cards would be willing to shell out some small loot to have a nice proxy. just one idea, but i think its my favorite at the moment.

id love to hear more...

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Post by dragsamou » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:38 pm

normalbrains wrote:we wouldnt make many sales for vanguards of dragsmou and magicrumormill.
Wrong,I have already 200 Clients :lol:
But,you are right for MRM ;D
Want/Have Lists.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8903
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I Love you Dad.R.I.P.

silver.paladin
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Re: Magic Library Community Project

Post by silver.paladin » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:31 pm

normalbrains wrote:
1. A set of tokens- i personally think this has been overdone already
2. A set of proxies- similar to the gamingetc P9 which dont use the actual card names....example: bazaar, workshop, drain
3. Stickers which could be stuck over basic lands
4. Foils or other chase cards
5. Modifying normal cards. Possibly erasing the art box and printing something new in its place. This may be too impractical and also illegal, not sure
#1 - I agree with you, this has been completely overdone - to the point of overkill.
#2 - If done professionally, this could be quite viable. In the long run, I think the Gamingetc proxies will have some value to them, due to the limited run, but the design was not very well done - so if it is done better, then this could be quite acceptable.
#4 - Some kind of chase cards could be interesting, and chase foils, or even P9 type proxie foils
#3 and #5 - I cannot see much interest in either.

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Re: Magic Library Community Project

Post by Mr.C » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:42 pm

silver.paladin wrote:
normalbrains wrote:
1. A set of tokens- i personally think this has been overdone already
2. A set of proxies- similar to the gamingetc P9 which dont use the actual card names....example: bazaar, workshop, drain
3. Stickers which could be stuck over basic lands
4. Foils or other chase cards
5. Modifying normal cards. Possibly erasing the art box and printing something new in its place. This may be too impractical and also illegal, not sure
#1 - I agree with you, this has been completely overdone - to the point of overkill.
#2 - If done professionally, this could be quite viable. In the long run, I think the Gamingetc proxies will have some value to them, due to the limited run, but the design was not very well done - so if it is done better, then this could be quite acceptable.
#4 - Some kind of chase cards could be interesting, and chase foils, or even P9 type proxie foils
#3 and #5 - I cannot see much interest in either.
Say we did textless proxies for the P9 and High end cards, in a language, like, say, Latin? Would it be copyright infringment? I think not...

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dry cereal
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Post by dry cereal » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:43 pm

MCM tokens!!!

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Celebrindor
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Re: Magic Library Community Project

Post by Celebrindor » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:13 pm

Mr.C wrote:Say we did textless proxies for the P9 and High end cards, in a language, like, say, Latin? Would it be copyright infringment? I think not...
What do you mean by 'textless' AND 'in latin'?

I doubt that simply translating the text to a different language would suffice for copyright purposes. On that note, does anyone know how long the copyright is good for on somehting like that? I imagine the copyright on the art would be rather long, but what about the cards themselves?

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Post by normalbrains » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:21 pm

regarding the legality of latin proxies: i dont know. im not sure how much appeal latin proxies would have to the average collector. do you mean just the name? ie: "mox ruby" in latin with the rest being a picture. i would think it probably still infringes on the copyright.


thanks for the suggestions guys. keep em comin!

mcm's suggestions/comments are welcome.

wheres ralph and hammer7's opinion in this?

does this project have legs? are people down to help out?

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Re: Magic Library Community Project

Post by Mr.C » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:23 pm

Celebrindor wrote:
Mr.C wrote:Say we did textless proxies for the P9 and High end cards, in a language, like, say, Latin? Would it be copyright infringment? I think not...
What do you mean by 'textless' AND 'in latin'?

I doubt that simply translating the text to a different language would suffice for copyright purposes. On that note, does anyone know how long the copyright is good for on somehting like that? I imagine the copyright on the art would be rather long, but what about the cards themselves?
The names would be in latin.

Imagine a textless Lotus, with the design of, say, a Textless leak, But written in Latin.

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Re: Magic Library Community Project

Post by Celebrindor » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:30 pm

Mr.C wrote:
Celebrindor wrote:
Mr.C wrote:Say we did textless proxies for the P9 and High end cards, in a language, like, say, Latin? Would it be copyright infringment? I think not...
What do you mean by 'textless' AND 'in latin'?

I doubt that simply translating the text to a different language would suffice for copyright purposes. On that note, does anyone know how long the copyright is good for on somehting like that? I imagine the copyright on the art would be rather long, but what about the cards themselves?
The names would be in latin.

Imagine a textless Lotus, with the design of, say, a Textless leak, But written in Latin.
Now that I understand what you mean, thats a great idea. If the only thing on the card is the name, it probably won't be a copyright violation - after all, there is a flower called the lotus, and black is simply a color. We'd have to use original / non-copyrighted art though - if we go through with this, does anyone know a MTG artist well enough to ask them to draw something for us? For that matter, does anyone speak Latin?

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Re: Magic Library Community Project

Post by Mr.C » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:41 pm

Celebrindor wrote:
Mr.C wrote:
Celebrindor wrote:
Mr.C wrote:Say we did textless proxies for the P9 and High end cards, in a language, like, say, Latin? Would it be copyright infringment? I think not...
What do you mean by 'textless' AND 'in latin'?

I doubt that simply translating the text to a different language would suffice for copyright purposes. On that note, does anyone know how long the copyright is good for on somehting like that? I imagine the copyright on the art would be rather long, but what about the cards themselves?
The names would be in latin.

Imagine a textless Lotus, with the design of, say, a Textless leak, But written in Latin.
Now that I understand what you mean, thats a great idea. If the only thing on the card is the name, it probably won't be a copyright violation - after all, there is a flower called the lotus, and black is simply a color. We'd have to use original / non-copyrighted art though - if we go through with this, does anyone know a MTG artist well enough to ask them to draw something for us? For that matter, does anyone speak Latin?
We could use generic pictures found on the net, or books, or, ask some members here who have artist talent, to draw.

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Post by Ralph Herold » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:29 pm

I have not had time to fully think it through, so here is a quick response. I appreciate the idea to create a special item for members of this website and to support the website alltogether (by the way, this was done before once by dragsamou and Jess by recreating the first series of Neo-Token token cards with Magic Library backsides). From the options presented, I like the proxy cards best. The concept is fresh and they are, aside from tokens, much easier to create without infringing copyright than the other mentioned items. The biggest problem I see at the moment is to pay for the artwork and the printing itself.

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Post by mintcollector » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:04 pm

Textless proxies could be a very viable product, if well done, could do well. The problem is that, any quality art will cost quite a bit of money. also the print run itself may be another hefty bill as well. If anyone is really curious to pursue this idea, here is a branch of Carta Mundi in the UK that does this sort of thing:

http://www.gamesandprint.co.uk/

They will do card printings. Of course someone would have to develop the whole project plan and submit it for a quote.

Not to totally drum up a really old issue that was never pursued, but what about developing a better logo for M:TG rarities? This way quality t-shirts can be printed along with various other swag. This logo could also be used in the card back design. These t-shirts could help identify members who are meeting at cons and the like. Getting a artistic logo done will also give an estimation of how much artworks could run.

Similar discussions on M:TG Salvation we made on a logo, and here is the thread on it:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=14264
Here is the link to the main page with their logo:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/

So the key is would people be open like M:TG Salvation was to let unknowns do the designs or would enlisting a well know M:TG artist be in order? This question extends to cards, logos, or whatever.

No if everyone recalls....this topic got a bit out of hand before with too many artists being presented.

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Post by hammr7 » Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:54 pm

I have a great friend who is quite an artist. He used to be heavily into D&D with me, and has professionally drawn everything from comics and children's books to travel brochures and corporate annual reports. He's been working for a corporation for the past 10 years and decided he needed some time off. So he's available and looking for distractions, and I might be able to convince him to provide artwork inexpensively (and with delayed payment) if we can determine just what we want.

He would be a fresh interpretation (as far as Magic goes), but with a strong foundation in the genre. He used to come up with the most amazing fantasy landscapes just for fun, and he maintains a laughingly warped sense of humor, which transfers nicely into his art. His recent commercial background might allow him to turn the art into finished items (be they tokens or proxies or something else) at a decent price.

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