Value of Counterfiet cards?

Pselus · Post by **Pselus** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:44 pm

I have a playset of English Mana Drains that were traded to me with my full knowledge that they are counterfeit. I play Type 1 10-proxy tournaments all the time so these work perfectly as proxies. I would like to know if they hold ANY value at all though. They are quite good counterfeits...2 months after I got them I jokingly tried to sell them back to the dealer I got them from and he thought they were real. Once people know they're fake the signs are obvious though.

The reason I'm asking is that I may be able to get ahold of a set of P9 fakes just like these (except with Alpha corners...even though one of them is white border...silly counterfieters) and I have no clue how much to offer the guy.
here are the P9 set.

dry cereal · Post by **dry cereal** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:08 pm

this is a sticky subject. First off, do not buy these cards on ebay...it's illegal and by posting the auction on this forum it will most likely get closed down.

Second:

Do not sell or buy fake cards. ;-)

I'm not entirely sure why they hold value, but they do. If it is a good set, it usually goes for around 90...which is wacky. but still...

Tha_Gunslinga · Post by **Tha_Gunslinga** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:58 pm

Worthless; don't touch em.

tap4black · Post by **tap4black** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:59 pm

Anyone STUPID enough to purchase known counterfeit cards is just an idiot looking to piss away his/her money.

I do thank you for the link to the auction though, I made sure to send it to both Ebay and Wizards legal so do not expect to see this shitbag offering his crap for sale again any time soon.

Pselus · Post by **Pselus** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:24 pm

dang...it is a touchy subject.
here's my take on the matter. Yes, they are counterfeit cards...but as long as they are sold as fakes what's wrong with that? (I know it's illegal...but why is it WRONG?).
Example, my 4 Mana Drains. I have had many people offer me full price for them thinking they were real...and I always tell them they are fake and explain to them how to figure out if it's a fake.
As for why I would want these cards...they are perfect for 10-proxy Type 1 events...and to get a good proxy made by one of the current Type 1 known proxy makers (Robert Vroman, Justin Droba, Roland Chang) it'll cost you upwards of $15 a card.
Sure I can just use a basic land and write it on there myself but when you spend so much time getting rare, interesting cards...it's really annoying to play out my basic swamp that says: "Mox Jet" and follow it with Foreign Black Border Sol Ring and Japanese Foil Yawgmoth's Will...y'know?

I don't plan on buying from that guy...his story just sounds fish...but I would still love to pick some of these up...don't guess I'll get help with that here will I?

Thanks anyway guys :)

l0qii · Post by **l0qii** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:32 pm

Pselus wrote: (I know it's illegal...but why is it WRONG?)

It is copyright infringement and in most countries violating a copyright is illegal. Regardless of your subjective opinions on right or wrong, the producer and seller can both be charged with crimes, fined and possibly jailed.

Tha_Gunslinga · Post by **Tha_Gunslinga** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:57 pm

Because eventually someone will pass them off as real.

Pselus · Post by **Pselus** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:11 pm

well curse people with bad morals.
I have written "FAKE" on the bottom of my mana drains. I never plan on trading them anyway...but if someone else ever got ahold of them I want it to be clear they ain't real.

agzz · Post by **agzz** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:08 pm

Pselus wrote:well curse people with bad morals.
I have written "FAKE" on the bottom of my mana drains. I never plan on trading them anyway...but if someone else ever got ahold of them I want it to be clear they ain't real.

if it says "fake" on them, why would ppl offer full value on them? :-/

Pselus · Post by **Pselus** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:15 pm

because I only recently wrote Fake on there...cause to be honest...it was sometimes tempting to get full price for em...so I took that option away.

dry cereal · Post by **dry cereal** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:37 pm

If you have a foil japanese yawgmoth's will, you may want to check your collection to see which cards are actually real

and confidentially, owning fake cards isn't the worst thing in the world. I understand not wanting to throw away your mana drains as soon as you find out owning them is illegal, and I respect you writing fake on them and not selling them.

to the rest of the members: please don't flame me

Pselus · Post by **Pselus** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:33 pm

dry cereal wrote:If you have a foil japanese yawgmoth's will, you may want to check your collection to see which cards are actually real

and confidentially, owning fake cards isn't the worst thing in the world. I understand not wanting to throw away your mana drains as soon as you find out owning them is illegal, and I respect you writing fake on them and not selling them.

heh, no I don't have foil japanese YawgWill...I was just naming pimp cards off the top of my head :)

as for owning illegal things...let's just say I first learned about "warez" programs the day I got broadband in college, on that day...I giggled alot...so I've been there and done that. (though I no longer DO do that).

Reliquium · Post by **Reliquium** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:46 am

There are many issues here. I'll start with one that hasn't been mentioned:

1. Not a good idea rag on a guy who openly admits to owning and wants to discuss having counterfeit cards, and why it's wrong. Then the next guy won't bother asking, there'll be no eBay link, and you're gonna drive the market further underground. No need to call him stupid. And, because he did post here, he took four fake Mana Drains out of the population.

Here's why it's wrong:

2. Counterfeit cards are illegal because, to use your analogy, writing $100 on a coupon for 30% off Tampax isn't the same as buying a $100 bill for $20 that was made using a sophisticated printing press to spit out very realistic copies of $100 bills. If you don't like the "look" of a swamp with Black Lotus written on it - which is a thin excuse for feeding the black market for fake cards - save up and get the real deal, or get a collector's edition and make some quick-and-dirty alterations.

3. Even you, who does show an upstanding moral character, back-pedalled and said you were tempted. Most people who have these cards have every intention of passing them off as real, and even if they are selling them as fake, by buying them, you are contributing to the market demand for fake cards. Which means more being made, which means more in the pool for collectors to unwittingly buy. To expand on what Gunslinga said, possibly even from a seller who had no idea, but once the buyer finds out they've been duped? Why, I'll bet they'll be more tempted than you were to sell them as real....

4. Magic isn't a card game. It's a collectable card game. Even if you don't collect, you should respect those who do. They invest a lot of time and money into acquiring a nice ongoing collection that they believe will appreciate in value. Condoning the buying, selling, or manufacture of these obvious counterfeits not only robs collectors of all their time and money by causing the cards to depreciate in value by artificially increasing the population, it is disrespectful to the Magic community at large. And as a member of that community, you should probably take every step you possibly can to get these people CHARGED and ARRESTED. I do. There'll be more satisfaction in that than there will be in owning a set of counterfeit P9s.

5. Lastly, though it might have been unintentional, thanks for posting the eBay link. You done good. Hell, thanks for posting and talking about it at all! It took guts, and you stuck with it. I don't know if there's a forum here dedicated to counterfeit alerts, etc., but there probably should be....

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Value of Counterfiet cards?

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